Moro Kris For Comment

RAMBA · 28th April 2019, 08:46 AM

Hello,

Not my area of collecting but picked this up as part of a random auction lot with some other non related items.

From my limited understanding this is a Moro Kris from Mindanao. This one interestingly has etched on the blade and written very lightly on the sheath the name KEYS (surname) with what I think is a service number V 08306218. I think this world be WW2 but can't trace this number. 8 digits would be British but the V is often a prefix on Australian service number. Enlistment being in the state of Victoria.

Back to the Kris.I think it would be from the 1940s? Really don't know. The blade has twist core. The blade is 48.5cm. Total 63cm. The scabbard is varnished and unfortunately cracked - recent damage. kris has some rust but no damage.

I have since been told it is a nice old Moro Sundang Kris 19th C.

Thanks for comments in advance.

Battara · 29th April 2019, 05:30 AM

Actually this needs to go to the Ethno Forum and not the Keris Forum. Moderators please move this.

Now to your questions:

1. I would place this kris into the very early 1800s.

2. Maguindanao would be my guess on tribal origins.

3. The scabbard is unusual and not a common Maguindanao form.

A very nice piece especially with that great twist core!

kai · 29th April 2019, 09:08 AM

I agree with Jose that this blade is a really good catch!

Based on the flow of lines and surface condition, I'd be inclined to place the blade at mid-19th century to Span-Am war period rather than any earlier.

There is a good chance that the narrow engraved lines once had silver inlay; however, the motif close to the tip was a bit crudely cut. Maybe there is no undercut for better retention of any inlay?

The scabbard seems to be a later replacement which might be consistent with a WWII scenario. I'd try to remove the varnish after carefully glueing the recent crack (traditional wood glue, possibly with a de-oiling step for tropical woods; I reckon the wood is not really heavy hardwood though?).

BTW, aren't the service numbers from Victoria accessible?

Regards,
Kai

RAMBA · 29th April 2019, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Actually this needs to go to the Ethno Forum and not the Keris Forum. Moderators please move this.

Now to your questions:

1. I would place this kris into the very early 1800s.

2. Maguindanao would be my guess on tribal origins.

3. The scabbard is unusual and not a common Maguindanao form.

A very nice piece especially with that great twist core!

Thanks for the response. This is good news on the blade and I suspect the rest is a later refit of the old blade. The twist core certainly gets people interested. The scabbard does not seem to be 19th C to me. But would make sense if made in the 1940s. The damage to the scabbard is recent -unfortunate as a result from someone hammering u-tacks (I removed them) into it to hang it I suppose - the cracking of the wood is fresh and the wood is not more than 80 years old. Also prior to the recent damage mentioned the scabbard seems to have had little damage if none. And is covered in a reddish varnish.

RAMBA · 29th April 2019, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

I agree with Jose that this blade is a really good catch!

Based on the flow of lines and surface condition, I'd be inclined to place the blade at mid-19th century to Span-Am war period rather than any earlier.

There is a good chance that the narrow engraved lines once had silver inlay; however, the motif close to the tip was a bit crudely cut. Maybe there is no undercut for better retention of any inlay?

The scabbard seems to be a later replacement which might be consistent with a WWII scenario. I'd try to remove the varnish after carefully glueing the recent crack (traditional wood glue, possibly with a de-oiling step for tropical woods; I reckon the wood is not really heavy hardwood though?).

BTW, aren't the service numbers from Victoria accessible?

I guess your PM is not activated yet. Feel free to contact me if you might be interested in a khukri trade:

HTML Code:

kai99.eaa@mailnull.com

Regards,
Kai

Thanks for the response. Yes I agree - not my area but I have handled enough old weapons to know when the blade and scabbard are the same date. And the scabbard would fit the 1940s date. The wooden pommel is of the same period to the scabbard and are covered in the same varnish. The workmanship of the blade is not lost on me and I have spent some time looking at the detail. I see no evidence of there being any silver in the lines. I can't see undercut as I have seen on some inlaid other blades.

I have done my best to use wood glue and have glued up the cracks - solid now and the kris can go in and out without the scabbard flexing.

My PM should be working as I have just had a PM from someone else.

RAMBA · 29th April 2019, 10:03 AM

The scabbard seems to be a later replacement which might be consistent with a WWII scenario. I'd try to remove the varnish after carefully glueing the recent crack (traditional wood glue, possibly with a de-oiling step for tropical woods; I reckon the wood is not really heavy hardwood though?).

Very light wood.

BTW, aren't the service numbers from Victoria accessible?

I'm trying to find out. I normally find this out fast as I have attributed a number of kukri to service men when a number is no a scabbard etc.

mross · 29th April 2019, 04:13 PM

That was a great score on a random lot. Unless the other not related items where a Lamborghini or a gold bar I'd say this is the star of the lot.

Yes, everything said about it is true as to age, sheath(not original) and the inlays were definitely silver.

David · 29th April 2019, 07:12 PM

Damn! Some folks have all the luck. I would say this is a highly desirable piece indeed for kris collectors and your are quite lucky to have stumbled upon it.
I'm with Kai. More likely mid-19th century than earlier. I would say that definitely the kakatau pommel and possible the entire hilt is a later replacement though.
Great score though!

RAMBA · 29th April 2019, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

That was a great score on a random lot. Unless the other not related items where a Lamborghini or a gold bar I'd say this is the star of the lot.

Yes, everything said about it is true as to age, sheath(not original) and the inlays were definitely silver.

Thanks for comments. Junk lot!

RAMBA · 29th April 2019, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Damn! Some folks have all the luck. I would say this is a highly desirable piece indeed for kris collectors and your are quite lucky to have stumbled upon it.
I'm with Kai. More likely mid-19th century than earlier. I would say that definitely the kakatau pommel and possible the entire hilt is a later replacement though.
Great score though!

Thanks for the comments. So mid 19th C with a later 20th C replacement scabbard and hilt. The pommel and scabbard seem a fit so probably all done at same time and as the theory goes picked up around the WW2 period.

I will probably be letting it go in a month or two. Not my area of collecting.

CharlesS · 30th April 2019, 01:04 AM

Yes!...a lovely blade, indeed! Like Battara said the scabbard is unusual for about any Moro area, and I have to wonder if it is later to the sword, which would not be unusual at all.

Ian · 30th April 2019, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAMBA

... I will probably be letting it go in a month or two. Not my area of collecting.

Hi Ramba:

Welcome to the Forum and congrats on a really neat find. If you plan to sell it, you might like to take advantage of the Swap Forum on this site.

Ian

28th April 2019, 08:46 AM	#1
RAMBA Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 98	Moro Kris For Comment - twist core Hello, Not my area of collecting but picked this up as part of a random auction lot with some other non related items. From my limited understanding this is a Moro Kris from Mindanao. This one interestingly has etched on the blade and written very lightly on the sheath the name KEYS (surname) with what I think is a service number V 08306218. I think this world be WW2 but can't trace this number. 8 digits would be British but the V is often a prefix on Australian service number. Enlistment being in the state of Victoria. Back to the Kris.I think it would be from the 1940s? Really don't know. The blade has twist core. The blade is 48.5cm. Total 63cm. The scabbard is varnished and unfortunately cracked - recent damage. kris has some rust but no damage. I have since been told it is a nice old Moro Sundang Kris 19th C. Thanks for comments in advance. Attached Images Last edited by RAMBA; 28th April 2019 at 10:44 PM.

29th April 2019, 09:08 AM	#3
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	I agree with Jose that this blade is a really good catch! Based on the flow of lines and surface condition, I'd be inclined to place the blade at mid-19th century to Span-Am war period rather than any earlier. There is a good chance that the narrow engraved lines once had silver inlay; however, the motif close to the tip was a bit crudely cut. Maybe there is no undercut for better retention of any inlay? The scabbard seems to be a later replacement which might be consistent with a WWII scenario. I'd try to remove the varnish after carefully glueing the recent crack (traditional wood glue, possibly with a de-oiling step for tropical woods; I reckon the wood is not really heavy hardwood though?). BTW, aren't the service numbers from Victoria accessible? Regards, Kai Last edited by kai; 29th April 2019 at 01:01 PM.

30th April 2019, 01:04 AM	#11
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Yes!...a lovely blade, indeed! Like Battara said the scabbard is unusual for about any Moro area, and I have to wonder if it is later to the sword, which would not be unusual at all. Last edited by CharlesS; 30th April 2019 at 01:15 PM.

29th April 2019, 05:30 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Actually this needs to go to the Ethno Forum and not the Keris Forum. Moderators please move this. Now to your questions: 1. I would place this kris into the very early 1800s. 2. Maguindanao would be my guess on tribal origins. 3. The scabbard is unusual and not a common Maguindanao form. A very nice piece especially with that great twist core!

29th April 2019, 10:03 AM	#6
RAMBA Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 98	The scabbard seems to be a later replacement which might be consistent with a WWII scenario. I'd try to remove the varnish after carefully glueing the recent crack (traditional wood glue, possibly with a de-oiling step for tropical woods; I reckon the wood is not really heavy hardwood though?). Very light wood. BTW, aren't the service numbers from Victoria accessible? I'm trying to find out. I normally find this out fast as I have attributed a number of kukri to service men when a number is no a scabbard etc.

29th April 2019, 04:13 PM	#7
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	That was a great score on a random lot. Unless the other not related items where a Lamborghini or a gold bar I'd say this is the star of the lot. Yes, everything said about it is true as to age, sheath(not original) and the inlays were definitely silver.

29th April 2019, 07:12 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,121	Damn! Some folks have all the luck. I would say this is a highly desirable piece indeed for kris collectors and your are quite lucky to have stumbled upon it. I'm with Kai. More likely mid-19th century than earlier. I would say that definitely the kakatau pommel and possible the entire hilt is a later replacement though. Great score though!