Old large Gunong

h0ll0wman · 28th August 2022, 03:00 PM

This is the largest gunong in my collection so far. It measures 14 3/4” in total length. I am not sure about its age though.

Battara · 29th August 2022, 12:24 AM

I might place this in the 1920s-1930s. The later it got in time, the bigger they sometimes got.

Here is one of mine that probably belonged to a sultan. It has sheets of chased gold on the scabbard, made of silver and copper as well. Yes the pommel is ivory. The length in scabbard is 20 inches.

Battara · 29th August 2022, 12:29 AM

I forgot to mention that the okir on your gunong looks Maranao tribe to me. The blade is not forged like this but appears to be by stock removal. Nice burl wood scabbard and pommel.

Are the copper looking bands copper or swassa?

h0ll0wman · 29th August 2022, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

I forgot to mention that the okir on your gunong looks Maranao tribe to me. The blade is not forged like this but appears to be by stock removal. Nice burl wood scabbard and pommel.

Are the copper looking bands copper or swassa?

Hello Battara. I appreciate all of your inputs. The bands appears to be swassa. Regarding the blade I thought it was forged considering the waves are smoother compared to gunongs done via stock removal. Nice gunong you have there. Thank you for sharing.

RobT · 30th August 2022, 01:48 AM

h0ll0wman,

I think that, had the curves been traditionally forged, the center ridge would echo the curves of the edges as in Battara's example.

Sincerely,
RobT

Battara · 30th August 2022, 05:18 AM

Rob you are on the money! The mid ridge should parallel the waves of the blade in a forged blade.

Some plain stock removal can be rough, but I've seen later kris and gunong have mono-steel stock removal with well polished blades.

h0ll0wman · 30th August 2022, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobT

h0ll0wman,

I think that, had the curves been traditionally forged, the center ridge would echo the curves of the edges as in Battara's example.

Sincerely,
RobT

Interesting. I learned something new. Thank you.

RobT · 31st August 2022, 10:01 PM

h0ll0wman,

You're welcome. I have read that the traditionally forged Philippine serpentine blades are "forged around a mandril" which accounts for the center ridge following the edge curves but "forged around a mandril" seems to me to be a bit vague and I would love to get a more detailed description of the process. What is also interesting about your gunong is the tip. Battara's example is what is normally found. The tip on yours looks more like tips found on Ilocano (often inscribed "Negrito") serpentine blades (see the thread "A Very Interesting Philippine Weapon" started by drac2k). I wonder if the folks up north are making their own take on a southern weapon form.

Sincerely,
RobT

Battara · 2nd September 2022, 01:03 AM

Rob you bring up a very good point (all puns intended

). The tip is not the standard Moro tip nor is the over all profile angle of the blade itself.

RobT · 2nd September 2022, 03:03 AM

Battara,

As you pointed out, traditional serpentine gunong have a sort of "droop" to the axis of the blade tip in relation to the hilt and none of the serpentine gunong I have ever seen show such a marked distal taper across the flat.
All the mentioned differences notwithstanding, h0ll0wman's blade appears not only to be well and carefully made but also purposely designed to be an effective weapon. We may well be seeing the beginning of a new variation on an old theme (perhaps produced by an entirely different culture than the one that created the old form). If this is the case, I feel that we will need to evaluate the new form by its own aesthetic not by the standards of the old form. There is precedence for this as, even traditionally formed gunongs have changed from their beginnings as small hideaway backups to large open carry daggers designed to be worn on a belt. We all accept this change without a problem as simply a reflection of different times with different needs.

Sincerely,
RobT

28th August 2022, 03:00 PM	#1
h0ll0wman Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 71	Old large Gunong This is the largest gunong in my collection so far. It measures 14 3/4” in total length. I am not sure about its age though. Attached Images

29th August 2022, 12:24 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	I might place this in the 1920s-1930s. The later it got in time, the bigger they sometimes got. Here is one of mine that probably belonged to a sultan. It has sheets of chased gold on the scabbard, made of silver and copper as well. Yes the pommel is ivory. The length in scabbard is 20 inches. Attached Images

30th August 2022, 01:48 AM	#5
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 489	Not Forged I Think h0ll0wman, I think that, had the curves been traditionally forged, the center ridge would echo the curves of the edges as in Battara's example. Sincerely, RobT Last edited by RobT; 30th August 2022 at 01:50 AM. Reason: add'l info

31st August 2022, 10:01 PM	#8
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 489	Interesting Tip h0ll0wman, You're welcome. I have read that the traditionally forged Philippine serpentine blades are "forged around a mandril" which accounts for the center ridge following the edge curves but "forged around a mandril" seems to me to be a bit vague and I would love to get a more detailed description of the process. What is also interesting about your gunong is the tip. Battara's example is what is normally found. The tip on yours looks more like tips found on Ilocano (often inscribed "Negrito") serpentine blades (see the thread "A Very Interesting Philippine Weapon" started by drac2k). I wonder if the folks up north are making their own take on a southern weapon form. Sincerely, RobT Last edited by RobT; 31st August 2022 at 10:02 PM. Reason: my attempt to direct to a link failed

2nd September 2022, 03:03 AM	#10
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 489	I Missed The Blade/Hilt Angle Battara, As you pointed out, traditional serpentine gunong have a sort of "droop" to the axis of the blade tip in relation to the hilt and none of the serpentine gunong I have ever seen show such a marked distal taper across the flat. All the mentioned differences notwithstanding, h0ll0wman's blade appears not only to be well and carefully made but also purposely designed to be an effective weapon. We may well be seeing the beginning of a new variation on an old theme (perhaps produced by an entirely different culture than the one that created the old form). If this is the case, I feel that we will need to evaluate the new form by its own aesthetic not by the standards of the old form. There is precedence for this as, even traditionally formed gunongs have changed from their beginnings as small hideaway backups to large open carry daggers designed to be worn on a belt. We all accept this change without a problem as simply a reflection of different times with different needs. Sincerely, RobT

29th August 2022, 12:29 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	I forgot to mention that the okir on your gunong looks Maranao tribe to me. The blade is not forged like this but appears to be by stock removal. Nice burl wood scabbard and pommel. Are the copper looking bands copper or swassa?

30th August 2022, 05:18 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Rob you are on the money! The mid ridge should parallel the waves of the blade in a forged blade. Some plain stock removal can be rough, but I've seen later kris and gunong have mono-steel stock removal with well polished blades.

2nd September 2022, 01:03 AM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Rob you bring up a very good point (all puns intended ). The tip is not the standard Moro tip nor is the over all profile angle of the blade itself.