Moroccan Dagger?

[Badgerbag]

Hi, Has anyone got an option on this please? Described as a “Moroccan Dagger” and “a souvenir of the Rif wars”. It certainly looks to be from that part of the world, and the script looks to be Arabic, but I’m no expert and it isn’t a design that I’ve seen before. I’ve only seen photos so far, so am not sure of the exact size.

[corrado26]

I think this is a knife or dagger of Algeria, unfortunately I don't know its special name. I have attached another one

[Sajen]

It,s a Tunesian dagger! Shoula similar.

Regards,
Detlef

[Jim McDougall]

Keep in mind that the regions in North Africa which include largely Morocco and Algeria are known collectively as 'the Maghreb', and that trade routes, nomadic tribes movement and interaction make geographic distinction with these weapons daunting at best.

Many weapons from these regions are often categorized as Moroccan, or Algerian often interchangeably. Tunisian weapons often come into the mix via these same dynamics.

As the Rif War between Spain and insurgences of the Berber tribes of the mountainous regions of N. Morocco primarily 1921-1926 was noted, I wanted to add some context which might describe the historic interest here.

Earlier in the century Great Britain insisted on creating a buffer between their strategic Meditteranean post at Gibraltar and French North Africa. In compliance the French authorized Spanish occupation in Morocco, in these Rif regions. The Berber tribes as Muslim of course resisted this infiltration of Christian Spaniards leading to this war which was one of the most notable colonial wars of the 20th c.

The sword attached is a machete from Cuban/Mexican regions of mid to latter 19th c. however in the early years of being properly identified (90s) was always seen as a 'Berber' sword, and from the Rif.

Actually these came into these regions during the insurgencies leading up to this war with Spain bringing conscripted forces from Cuba with units of the Cuban army, and these weapons were brought in at those times.
Naturally these weapons for tropical climes were not particularly useful and many ended up circulating in Moroccan regions, ending up being regarded as 'Moroccan'.

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

The sword attached is a machete from Cuban/Mexican regions of mid to latter 19th c. however in the early years of being properly identified (90s) was always seen as a 'Berber' sword, and from the Rif.....Actually these came into these regions during the insurgencies leading up to this war with Spain bringing conscripted forces from Cuba with units of the Cuban army, and these weapons were brought in at those times. Naturally these weapons for tropical climes were not particularly useful and many ended up circulating in Moroccan regions, ending up being regarded as 'Moroccan'.

I have questions Tirri identified these as Berber. He was published in 2007. I have read that he had several notable errors. I noticed that Laz swords were north African as well in this book. Was any part of this sword Berber? I.e. was the dress, either the handle or scabbard Cuban? Was the blade's tip contoured on Cuba or North Africa? Finally, if these features were Cuban were they from west African influence that then returned to Saharan Africa with the Spanish?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

I have questions Tirri identified these as Berber. He was published in 2007. I have read that he had several notable errors. I noticed that Laz swords were north African as well in this book. Was any part of this sword Berber? I.e. was the dress, either the handle or scabbard Cuban? Was the blade's tip contoured on Cuba or North Africa? Finally, if these features were Cuban were they from west African influence that then returned to Saharan Africa with the Spanish?

Good questions I.P.
I recall this episode very well, and when I disputed these particular items I'm afraid I ran profoundly afoul of Mr. Tirri, though I considered his book a most useful guide for collectors overall. It is well photographed and shows the many forms of ethnographic weapons in conditions and character as most often encountered in the larger volume of arms to come on the market.

Most references will have errors, and authors generally expect that there will be corrections, disputes and revisions.......historical research is ever dynamic.

The 'Laz' swords (colloquially termed Black Sea yataghans here) which Mr. Tirri presumed North African were actually Transcaucasian with a number of points they were collected in the latter 19th c. in Anatolian regions, basically Black Sea environs.

The 'Berber' swords were indeed properly shown associated with the Rif Wars if I recall, but we did discover in the late 90s or so, that these were actually Caribbean/Cuban weapons which as I mentioned were taken into the Spanish colonial regions from auxiliary support forces brought from Cuba.

In researching these back then, we wondered why if these were in any way Moroccan, why did they not show up in the most comprehensive volume on the arms of these regions, Charles Buttin's work (1933). Buttin lived much of his life off and on in Morocco, so he, as an arms writer would have seen firsthand any examples in Berber context.......and these are notably absent.

The blades on these seem to most often be M1796 cavalry blades reprofiled into those of certain blades from East Indies, Philippines mindful of the kamplilan or klewang. Some of the hilt features also compare to examples found in the Philippines. The scabbard with the vertical handle resembles curiously some African shotel scabbards, meant to hold as blade withdrawn in moist tropical situations.
There is no evidence I have noted to other Berber arms with these, and while obviously some to Moroccan provenance, others are attributed to the Caribbean, Dominican Republic and eastern coastal Mexico.