Swiss lionhead saber with brass covered hilt

[midelburgo]

It seems I made a little fumble.
I have been putting together a file of images of Spanish late XVIIth to late XVIIIth hilts covered with two brass or silver cylindrical pieces. Sometimes they meet at the middle sometimes they dont. They used the same kind on knifes up to the end of XIXth century
I also remembered a lion head saber, at the Luis Calvo chapter on early Spanish c1700 dragoon swords (bottom right). So called Washington Spanish swords, bottom left.

http://www.catalogacionarmas.com/public/48-DragS.pdf

So I saw this saber and I won it.

Now I know it is actually a Swiss saber. Spain never had Swiss mercenary cavalry. I still have to research French units in the Spanish sucession war.

Relevant threads:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20946

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27896

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18464

[Hotspur]

It is a Swiss bear, not a lion. In my opinion and research.

[midelburgo]

Originally Posted by Hotspur

It is a Swiss bear, not a lion. In my opinion and research.

Interesting. It makes sense. I cannot change the title now.

I have been giving a look to
Kriegswesen und Kriegskunst der schweizerischen Eidgenossen- Carl von Elgger

And I only find a citation for cavalry as foreign units were contracted to go with the swiss knechte. I see Swiss cavalry swords do not seem too exceptional, but I do not find the units.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by midelburgo

Interesting. It makes sense. I cannot change the title now...

We can do that. What title would you like it be ?

[midelburgo]

Originally Posted by fernando

We can do that. What title would you like it be ?

Felines that are plantigrads or something alike. Not needed really.

The sabre arrived. Very nice, very sharp. I have to decide if I touch the thumbring or it remains that crooked (but safe) way. A plate is missing on the oposite side, possibly brass (see example at the bottom).

Now. I still do not understand how something as minoritary as "Swiss cavalry" has left so many swords behind. If you read battle reports from the period, you have lots of croats everybattle, but no Swiss cavalry.

Searching on the web I almost see an evolution of these swords in XVIIIth century... reaching America!

[werecow]

Speaking of Swiss brass hilted sabers and pommels with heads, might as well post this here: this was on auction on catawiki last week. I did not buy it (although I estimate there is an 89.31% chance that it went to someone reading this forum on occasion), but I haven't seen anything too close to it before, so curious as to your thoughts. 87.5cm, sold as " Switzerland. 17/18 century Artistic, private production.".
Not sure if the head is that of a lion (or bear), but otherwise it seemed to fit this thread title too well not to mention it. Hope it's not too off topic.

EDIT: Also, is that thumb ring bent in the saber posted in the OP, or is that some configuration I'm not familiar with?

[M ELEY]

This saber would date to the late 17th/early 18th based on the finger ring configuration. The all-brass hilt indicates infantry/foot soldier, as does the longer curved blade. The usage of acorn finials would point to a Germanic or Swiss possibility, but can't really rule out Dutch due to the side guard. Nice sword!

[midelburgo]

I have been collecting some more pictures of these sabers.

Handling it I have reach the idea that it is not a proper cavalry weapon, rather a mounted officer one (infantry I guess). That makes more sense to the lack of Swiss cavalry units.

At the end of XVIIth century there were 12 regiments of Swiss Infantry at the service of the Spanish Habsburgs, so that conciliate my idea when I bought this sabre.

The question remains if it is apropiate to describe this sort of hilt as belonging to the walloon type. And if the lion-bear head pommels are exclusively Swiss, what can be said of swords with the same hilt but straight blades and ovoid/apple pommels?