27th August 2016, 10:41 PM | #1 |
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Nimcha: Please help with markings
I just received this Nimcha. There is one fish shaped stamp (a maker’s mark?) and also a couple lines of what might be text, but I can’t even make out what script it is supposed to be. It looks too orthogonal to be Arabic. Help would be greatly appreciated.
I also include a couple pictures comparing this sword to my “Zanzibar type” Saif. |
28th August 2016, 02:51 AM | #2 |
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date
Comments on the age of this sword would also be appreciated.
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28th August 2016, 07:53 PM | #3 |
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sketch of text
It is surprisingly hard to get much detail from the photos, so I made a sketch and digitally refined it. Also, I found a couple links to old Berber/Moroccan scripts but this does not seem like a good match to either,
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/tifinagh.htm http://www.omniglot.com/writing/berber.htm |
28th August 2016, 08:33 PM | #4 | |
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I think I can see some similarities with the Berber script. Maybe is alocal variety of the Berber script. Most puzzling for sure! |
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28th August 2016, 08:48 PM | #5 | |
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Look at this link and you will have your answer. http://www.brownlee.com.au/Pages/And...ra_swords.html and the link of our glorious pope http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...rs+trade+marks for Andrea Ferrara marks and the bee / fly stamp Best, Kubur |
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29th August 2016, 12:59 PM | #6 |
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Sorry I missed it
Kubur,
I'm unsure what I was supposed to find in those threads. Marcus |
29th August 2016, 05:57 PM | #7 |
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The small mark is European, just like the overall gestalt of the blade: very accurate and precise.
The crude inscription IMHO is a latter add-on to simulate Latin alphabet. I looked at it from every possible angle and couldn't make heads or tails out of it. Most likely , in the immortal words of Mel Brooks, it is an " authentic frontier gibberish". |
1st September 2016, 02:08 AM | #8 |
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THE TWO LINES OF SQUIGLE ARE THE SAME ...EXCEPT THAT THE SECOND OR LOWER LINE IS BADLY EXECUTED....
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1st September 2016, 06:45 AM | #9 |
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It's Klingon!
PS: I think Ariel is right, unless it is a very little known local Berber script. Very interesting how Europeans tried to imitate the Arabic script without having any knowledge of it, while at the same time other people tried to imitate Latin script. |
2nd September 2016, 07:16 PM | #10 |
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Four times a charm
I agree that the two lines try to be the same. Incidentally, the same string of characters is repeated twice on the other side of the sword as well. If it is gibberish, it was interesting enough to repeat four times!
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2nd September 2016, 10:55 PM | #11 | |
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2nd September 2016, 11:56 PM | #12 |
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speaking of gibberish
Kubur is right about that. Rare was the literate artisan during the period in question. Illiterate workmen copying from pattern-books or other objects can yield some interesting results. We see it in the scribbly Arabic on Ottoman blade inscriptions as late as the 19th cent. (yet on some Mughal court blades, the fine chiseled inscriptions on the spine are absolutely superb, whether it be from some degree of schooling, and/ or the fact that their manual skill enabled to copy calligraphic writing with extreme accuracy).
E. Astvatsaturyan in ORUZHIYE NARODOV KAVKAZA (Armament of the Caucasian Peoples) pp 56-7 reproduces the clumsy attempts of Caucasian cutlers to imitate the inscriptions on imported European blades, with all the reversed and transposed letters. Smiths in the West didn't do any better, judging from the butchered Latin seen on German and Dutch blades of the 17th and 18th cent. This, from a possibly Dutch saber blade, 17th cent., remounted as a katana in Japan, now in the National Museum, Copenhagen: Inter Arm Silent Lege (correct: inter arma silent leges , "the law is silent in wartime") Inte Domine speraw on Connfunda naternumm (correct: in Te Domine speravi non confundar in aeternum, "in Thee, O Lord I have trusted [that] I not be led astray forever) ...cora...ava...is axn...antia (indecipherable) There are many blades like this , I have a Polish example in my collection. To see this Nipponified Dutch sword, refer to "Et Euro-Japansk Sverd i Nationalmuseet i Kobehhavn" by P T Norheim, VAABEN HISTORISKE AARBOGER XVI, pp 163 173 |
29th May 2020, 08:21 PM | #13 |
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These are Latin letters, copied rather badly; I have a nimcha, probably with a European blade, which bears the same letters, as seen in the photos.
What these letters mean, I have no idea ... |
30th May 2020, 09:40 AM | #14 |
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I have a very similar Nimcha.
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31st May 2020, 07:05 PM | #15 |
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Sorry, I'm new to the forum and quite inexperienced ... I was unable to upload photos, in the previous post.
The letters seems, to me: O N CI N CI NO Last edited by Duccio; 1st June 2020 at 11:43 AM. |
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