BICHWA (THE SCORPIONS STING)

[VANDOO]

THE BICHWA DAGGER OF INDIA LITTERLY MEANS SCORPIONS STING. THERE ARE OTHER INDIAN KNIVES (KANJARLI) AS WELL AS THOSE FROM ARABIC COUNTRYS (KHANJAR, JAMBAYA )THAT HAVE A SIMULAR SHAPED BLADE. PERHAPS THERE IS A LINK BETWEEN THE VARIOUS COUNTRYS AND FORMS. MAN OFTEN COPIES HIS IMPLEMENTS FROM THOSE HE OBSERVES IN NATURE. OFTEN HE COPIES AND RESPECTS THE THINGS HE FEARS, THE SCORPION BEING ONE OF THE CRITTERS UNIVERSALLY FEARED AND RESPECTED WHERE EVER IT IS KNOWN. THE TIGER ,SNAKE,SHARK AND LION BEING A FEW OTHER EXAMPLES.

THE SCORPION IS WELL KNOWN IN LEGENDS FROM ANCIENT TIMES IN MANY CULTURES.

1. GREEK, SEE THE LEGEND OF ORION, SCORPIONS ALSO FIGURE IN OTHER GREEK LEGENDS.

2. SCORPIONS ARE MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE AS AN EVIL CREATURE SO THEY PLAYED A PART IN THE ISRALITES LEGENDS.

3. MAYAN CIVILIZATION ASSOCIATED THE SCORPION WITH SURGERY PERHAPS BECAUSE OF ITS ABILITY TO PARALIZE ITS PREY.

4. EGYPT, GODDES ISIS HAD GIANT SCORPIONS AS BODYGAURDS. SCORPIONS WERE BELIVED TO BE GAURDIANS OF SACRED GATEWAYS, TOMBS AND THE ENTRANCE TO THE UNDERWORLD. EGYPTIAN GODDESS SERKET OFTEN SEEN GAURDING COPTIC JARS, SHE IS THE WOMAN WITH A SCORPION ON HER HEAD. THEY STILL USE SCORPION TAILSMEN AND AMULETS.

5. BABYLONIAN MYTH OF VERY FEARSOME WARRIORS REFERED TO AS SCORPION MEN.

6.AFRICA SOME REGARD SCORPIONS AS EVIL OTHERS AS GOOD. AN OIL DERIVED FROM SCORPION VENOM IS A TRADITIONAL MEDICINE. THEY HAVE SCORPION TAILSMEN AND CHARMS BOTH TO PROTECT THEM FROM SCORPIONS AS WELL AS TO GAIN THE SCORPIONS POWERS.

7. IN TIBET AMULETS ARE STILL WORN, BUDDHIST MYTHOLOGY SCORPIONS SERVED AS TEMPLE GAUARDIANS OF THE HOLY DHARMA. THE SCORPION WAS REGAURDED AS A SYMBOL OF PACIFICATION, WHICH TURNS MENACING AT THE FIRST SIGN OF ANYONE INTENDING HARM. THE SCORPION AMULET WAS OFTEN A DESIGN FOUND ON SWORD AND DAGGER HANDLES AND PERSONEL SEALS AMONG OTHER PLACES AND WAS THERE AS A PROTECTIVE FEATURE.

8. INDIA THE BUDDIST BELIEFS AND LEGENDS APPLY TO THE SCORPION. THE LARGE FALAKNUMA PALACE IN HYDERABAD INDIA IS LAID OUT IN THE SHAPE OF A SCORPION.

SOME CULTURES LOOK ON THE SCORPION AS A SYMBOL OF TREACHERY, DEATH, PAIN,DANGER,WICKEDNESS, HATRED AND ENVY. OTHERS HAVE A MORE FAVORABLE VIEW BUT MOST ALL FEAR AND RESPECT THE SCORPION.

ONE OF MANKINDS ANCIENT GOALS HAS ALWAYS BEEN THAT HE BE FEARED BY HIS FELLOW MEN. SO HAVING A WEAPON ASSOCIATED WITH A DANGEROUS ,POWERFUL AND FEARED CREATURE EITHER REAL OR FROM LEGEND CAN OFTEN CAUSE AN ENEMY TO FEAR YOU AND PERHAPS AVOID TROUBLE. SO A SCORPION WARRIOR WITH A SCORPIONS STING AS A WEAPON WOULD BE A GOOD DETERRENT. SO PERHAPS THIS CURVED BLADE FORM MAY HAVE EVOLVED FROM SOME OF THE ANCIENT BELIEFS?

[VANDOO]

THE OTHER DAGGER FROM INDIA I HAVE SEEN REFERRED TO OVER THE YEARS AS A SCORPION DAGGER IS THE KANJARLI.
I HAVE ALSO ADDED A PICTURE OF A PERSIAN DAGGER FOR BLADE COMPARISON.

[Lew]

The bottom dagger is not a khanjarli . This is in the family of daggers known as Tiger Teeth they come from North India, They are characterized by the curved blade with reinforced edges and slightly thickened tip.

[VANDOO]

TRUE ITS AS YOU SAY AND I DID MIS IDENTIFY IT AS PERSIAN. THE THING I AM GETTING AT IS A POSSIBLE ORIGIN AND REASON FOR THE CURVED BLADE BEING DEVELOPED. IN THE BRONZE AGE MOST SWORDS AND DAGGERS HAD STRAIGHT BLADES, PERHAPS IT WAS BECAUSE OF WHAT IS NEEDED TO WORK BRONZE WEAPONS. I HAVE NOT SEEN ALL FORMS OF BRONZE WEAPONS BUT MOST OF THE SWORDS AND DAGGERS FROM LURISTAN, SYTHIA, GREECE AND CHINA I HAVE SEEN HAVE ALL BEEM STRAIGHT. SOME OF THE BRONZE AX BLADES ARE CURVED AND SOME EARLY CEREMONIAL ITEMS HAVE CURVED SHAPES.
THE CHINESE BRONZE POLE AX ( SHANG DYNASTY) WOULD STRIKE IN THE SAME MANNER AS A SCORPION. THE GREEK KOPIS AT THE MET. IS EARLY IRON AGE IS THE FIRST CURVED SWORDS I AM AWARE OF. PERHAPS SOMEONE WITH MUCH MORE KNOWLEGE THAN I CAN SHED SOME LIGHT ON THE SUBJECT. DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANYTHING ELSE REFERRED TO AS A SCORPION DAGGER, SWORD OR SPEAR ECT. ? I ADDED A SCORPIONS STINGER AND A 16 CENTURY KHANJAR.
I WAS JUST THINKING AND THOUGHT PERHAPS THIS MAY MAKE FOR AN INTERESTING DISCUSSION.

[VANDOO]

JUST FOR FUN HERE ARE SOME OF THE CURRENT EBAY FANTASY ITEMS. PROBABLY VERY ATTRACTIVE TO THE YOUNG BOYS STILL IN THE COMIC BOOK STAGE.

[ariel]

"JUST FOR FUN HERE ARE SOME OF THE CURRENT EBAY FANTASY ITEMS. PROBABLY VERY ATTRACTIVE TO THE YOUNG BOYS STILL IN THE COMIC BOOK STAGE.
Attached Images"

They are for middle-aged adults still in the comics book stage :-)

[Luc LEFEBVRE]

Here a throwing knife from Sudan, Ingessana tribe, called "muder" : the scorpion.

[Emanuel]

Hi Vandoo,

Very interesting topic. In the case of the khanjar and other curved daggers I think the curve of a canine a closer point of inspiration. The curve naturally follows the arc of a downward-stabbing, biting motion. In the case of canines, the curve also helps retain prey. Perhaps a reason for the double-recurve daggers, potentially seen as harder to remove from the target (and harder to stab to begin with as well).

In the case of the falcatta/kopis and the large forward-curved knives they are derived from, i think the shape is the result of physical considerations. It makes for a good chopper, and a good draw-cut.

I do, however, agree on the powerfully symbolism of the scorpion as an agent of death - be it positive or negative.

All the best,
Emanuel

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

The bottom dagger is not a khanjarli . This is in the family of daggers known as Tiger Teeth they come from North India, They are characterized by the curved blade with reinforced edges and slightly thickened tip.

Which shows just how interesting this 'study' is, and the potential 'inspiration' for these marvelous Indian weapons.
Following the tiger theme, the bagh-Nakh is 'tiger claws'. (not adding pics as this is really a digression from the theme of curved daggers)

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by ariel

"JUST FOR FUN HERE ARE SOME OF THE CURRENT EBAY FANTASY ITEMS. PROBABLY VERY ATTRACTIVE TO THE YOUNG BOYS STILL IN THE COMIC BOOK STAGE.
Attached Images"

They are for middle-aged adults still in the comics book stage :-)

Should I admit now that I have Kano's Mortal Kombat 'Raptor' by Gil Hibben?

Um, middle aged adult into: video games, knives and movies?..... How could I 'not' buy it?

[VANDOO]

I AM NOT PUTTING DOWN THE FANTASY KNIVES OR THOSE WHO LIKE THEM. I HAVE AN EARLY VERSION OF THE RAPTOR WITH GILL HIBBENS SIGNATURE.
I NO LONGER READ COMICS ,ITS NOT REALLY NECESSARY THESE DAYS AS THEY HAVE MADE MOVIES BASED ON MANY OF THEM. I WILL BUY A FANTASY ITEM BASED ON IF I FIND IT ASETHILLCY PLEASING (NEAT) AND THE PRICE IS RIGHT.

THE POWER OF CERTAN ANIMALS HAVE BEEN ADMIRED AND FEARED SINCE THE HUNTER GATHER DAYS. THE FANG AND CLAW WERE FEARED BECAUSE THEY COULD DEAL DEATH TO YOU OR YOUR FAMILY. HUMANS HAVE A NATURAL FIGHTING INSTINCT TO STRIKE WITH HANDS AND FEET AS WELL AS TO BITE. HAVING SMALL TEETH AND NO CLAWS TO SPEAK OF WE NO DOUBT MANUFACTURED SOME TO BE USED FOR STRIKING WITH OUR HANDS. THE CLUB OR HAND HELD OR THROWN ROCK BEING OUR MOST LIKELY FIRST WEAPON.
WHEN RELIGION AND HUNTING/ FIGHTING CULTS OR GROUPS WERE FORMED THEY OFTEN HAD A TOTUM OR CLAN SYMBOL ECT. WEAPONS MAY HAVE BEEN INFLUENCED BY THIS ANIMAL AS WERE COSTUMES AND MASKS. WHERE THE SCORPION DOSEN'T EXHIST SUCH AS IN COLD WET CLIMATES IT WOULD NOT BE PRESENT. BUT IN AREAS WHERE IT IS PLENTIFUL AND THE POSSIBILITY OF BEING STUNG WAS HIGH IT IS MORE LIKELY TO RECEIVE MORE HUMAN INTREST. THE SERPENT HAS ALSO RECEIVED LOTS OF ATTENTION AND IS IN MANY LEGENDS AND OFTEN ASSOCIATED WITH THE SUPERNATURAL. THUS THE NAGA AS WELL AS THE SCORPION AMONG OTHERS MAY FIGURE INTO DESCRIPTIONS OF BLADES OF ALL SORTS.

[VANDOO]

TO SUM UP MY THOUGHTS ON THIS SUBJECT BEFORE I LET IT FADE INTO THE HAZE.

TOOLS ARE USUALLY DESIGNED TO PREFORM A CERTIAN FUNCTION BUT IT IS POSSIBLE NOT ALL WEAPONS BEGAN OR WERE DESIGNED JUST FOR THEIR INTENDED FUNCTION.

SOME MAY HAVE STARTED AS PURELY CEREMONIAL OBJECTS AND BECAUSE THEY WERE THE WEAPON OF SOME FEARED SPIRIT OR DIETY IN THE SOCIETYS LEGENDS SOMEONE MADE A WEAPON THAT EVOLVED BASED ON THESE WEAPONS FROM THE GODS OR SPIRITS.

THE EARLY BRONZE AGE WEAPONS WERE FAIRLY SIMULAR IN BLADE FORMS AND THE MAJORITY WERE STRAIGHT BLADES. ONE BRONZE EGYPTIAN SWORD BEING AN EXCEPTION, SORRY I FORGET ITS NAME ,IT IS THE ODD SHAPED CHOPPER STYLE. IT WAS USED IN THE MUMMY MOVIES BY THE PHAROS GAURDS.

I THINK THE SUPERNATURAL , RELIGIOUS AND ANIMISTIC BELIEFS HAD MORE INFLUENCE ON THE DESIGN OF MANY WEAPONS DUE TO THEIR USE TO TAKE HUMAN LIFE. PERHAPS SOMEWHERE THERE ARE PROBABLY REFRENCES TO SUCH OCCURANCES BUT IT MAY BE DIFFICULT TO LINK IT ALL TOGETHER. THOR OF COURSE USED A MAGICAL HAMMER, SHIVA HAD A TRIDENT AMONG OTHER WEAPONS AND THERE ARE MANY MORE EXAMPLES.
A WARRIOR THEN AS NOW NEEDED MORE PROTECTION FROM THE GODS, TOTUMS OR SPIRITS HIS SOCIETY BELIEVED IN AS HE WAS GOING INTO HARMS WAY FOR HIS PEOPLE. SOMETIMES THIS MAY HAVE HAD AN INFLUENCE ON THE FORMS AND SYMBOLS ON WEAPONS.
OF COURSE SOME ANCIENT BUSNESS MAN MAY HAVE MADE A NEAT CURVED DAGGER AND CALLED IT A SCORPIONS STING AND EVERYONE WANTED ONE. BUT
I PREFER THE INFLUENCE OF LEGENDS, SUPERSTITION AND THE ANIMISTIC BELIEFS IN CERTIAN FEARED AND RESPECTED GODS OR ANIMALS AS THE INFLUENCES.

[Jim McDougall]

Absolutely excellent thread Vandoo!!!!
Its great to have focus on a particular weapon, post examples, references and then share observations overall just as done here, and I've often wondered about the colorful 'scorpion' term.

I think it is interesting that in the decoration on many Arabian scabbards and perhaps other motif, the 'aghrab', a stylized device to deflect the evil eye in the terms of the folk religion/superstition, represents the scorpion.

Fascinating discussion on these bichwa, and I am still puzzled by those with double blades.......would they be associated with zhulfikar representation?

All best regards,
Jim

[VANDOO]

THERE IS THE POSIBILITY OF A CONNECTION BETWEEN THE ZHULFIKAR AND ANY TWO BLADED WEAPON. BUT IT IS UNLIKELY THAT ALL TWO BLADED SWORDS OR DAGGERS WERE INFLUENCED ONLY BY THAT SOURCE, INDEED THE ORIGINAL ZHULFIKAR SWORD OF THE PROPHET MAY HAVE ORIGINATED FROM SOME EARLIER SOURCE OR INFLUENCE EVEN IF IT WAS A CUSTOM MADE SWORD. I DON'T KNOW THE HISTORY OF THAT PARTICULAR SWORD SO CAN'T SPECULATE ON ITS ORIGINS OR HOW IT CAME INTO THE POSSESION OF THE PROPHET. PERHAPS A MEMBER WHO HAS DONE THE RESEARCH COULD START A POST ON IT.
IT IS UNCOMMON BUT SCORPIONS WITH TWO STINGERS AND SOMETIMES EVEN TWO TAILS WITH STINGERS HAVE BEEN FOUND OFTEN ENOUGH TO BE NOTED IN REFRENCES ON THE CRITTERS. IN THESE CASES YOU GET DOUBBLE THE POSION AND PAIN.

[Jim McDougall]

This is an interesting thread (uh......except for the trip to fantasyland but as Ariel notes, we've all got a little 'kid' left in us) and I've been looking into some things, which I hope will help with Vandoo's intent in examining these fascinating daggers. I know I've learned more on these, which I will share here, and would appreciate any clarification as required.

First of all, the dagger at the bottom of post #2 is indeed a khanjarli, which has the very recurved blade seem on khanjars, with the primary distinction apparantly the lunette shaped pommel, in this case ivory, but there are examples with buffalo horn or ebony known. Interestingly, the chiseled motif in the center of the blade amidst the fullering appears to be the 'kundalini flame' device often seen in the blades of many katars.

It is important to note that the recurved shape of these blades appears to actually be with reference to the shape of the buffalo horn, which was believed to have been used in earlier stabbing weapons. The reference to the scorpion or its sting appears to be more metaphorical, inferring the sting of death or to that effect. As mentioned by Vandoo, the scorpion has been used in such symbolism in many cultures over time.
As previously mentioned, the agrab (stylized scorpion image) is a well known device used on Arabian weapons to deflect the glance of the evil eye, with the scorpion presumably fearsome enough to have that effect.

As with many weapons and the often confounding terminology that is often associated with them, the term bichwa seems colloquially applied more than anything else. That doesnt help the double blade conundrum I guess and this may have to do with Indian propensity for unusual and often multi-bladed weapons.

With these terms again, the term tiger tooth for daggers seems to be a case of intrerpolation of metaphoric terms. As with the bagh-nakh, the fearsome looking set of tiger claws, some daggers are referred to as the tigers claw I believe. It seems I have seen some unfounded reference to tiger tooth used regarding daggers, but that seems to have been unsubstantiated.

The term 'tooth' with reference to daggers may be associated with the term jamadhar, which as discussed years ago, is the proper term for the transverse grip daggers we all know as the katar. The error is traced back to Egerton, and was carried forward by subsequent writers.
Loosely interpreted, the 'jamadhar' term from Sanskrit terms means the 'tooth of death', without complex etymological breakdown.

The term 'tooth' of course also may be considered with the materials used in the hilts of these weapons, where walrus tooth was often a source of ivory,
and perhaps zoological elements might have inspired phraseology.

All best regards,
Jim

[laEspadaAncha]

The diverse expression of form in indigenous Hindu weapons is in and of itself enough to draw someone into the timeless romanticism many collectors feel... and the bichwa is one such example.

Below are a few photos of the lone bichwa I own, which I acquired at a chor bazaar (thieve's market) in the south of India in 1997. It is brass hilted with an iron blade, and is relatively small (many bichwas were made of a size so as to be easily concealed), measuring approximately 9 1/4 inches in OAL.

[VANDOO]

ANOTHER BEAUTIFUL AND ORNATE EXAMPLE.

I WILL ADD THREE MORE EXAMPLES FOR REFRENCE TWO ORNATE AND ONE IN A SIMPLE MORE WORKMAN TYPE FORM. I WOULD SUSPECT THE ORNATE ONES WERE WORN WHERE THEY COULD BE SEEN WHILE THE MORE SIMPLE ONES MAY HAVE BEEN CARRIED OPENLY OR CONCEALED FOR SUPRIZE PROTECTION OR TREACHERY. SOME OF THESE PICTURES CAME FROM FORUM MEMBERS POSTS I HOPE I RUFFLE NO FEATHERS BY USING THEM HERE. THANKS :
I HAVE ALSO ADDED A KERIS WITH A SCORPION CUT INTO THE BLADE (OLD OR NEW ) BUT INTERESTING

[CourseEight]

I guess I've developped a bit of a penchant for bichwa. Here are mine, some posted here before by me or previous owners.

[VANDOO]

A VERY NICE COLLECTION PERHAPS WITH A FEW MORE PICTURES AND ANY FURTHER INFORMATION ANYONE MIGHT HAVE ON THEM IT COULD MAKE THIS THE CLASSIC THREAD ON BICHWA ONE INTERESTING FEATURE IS THE HANDLE ON SOME REMIND ME A BIT OF A SPUR TO FIT ON A HORSEMANS BOOT.

ITS KIND OF IRONIC AS I HAVE NEVER OWNED ONE.

[Marcus]

I searched out this thread for some background reading while I am waiting for two Bichwa daggers to arrive from Oriental Arms. One thing I noticed, looking at the examples posted, is that on some pieces the grip (loop) is oriented parallel to the blade while on others it is at 90 degrees. Does this suggest different styles of use?

[KuKulzA28]

Originally Posted by Marcus

I searched out this thread for some background reading while I am waiting for two Bichwa daggers to arrive from Oriental Arms. One thing I noticed, looking at the examples posted, is that on some pieces the grip (loop) is oriented parallel to the blade while on others it is at 90 degrees. Does this suggest different styles of use?

I've owned both kinds in the past... had a lil' bichwa craze... in fact I think some of VANDOOs images he's using are from a bichwa I once had

I think there must be two slightly different methods of use, one's blade is in line with the plane of your hand/arm and the other is not.

[shayde78]

Rather than starting a new topic, and at the risk of reviving a thread that has long lain dormant, I've been pondering lately if the bichwa form could have developed as a knife specifically designed for archers.

The tightly fitting hilt with guard allows the weapon to be in one's right hand even while drawing a bow. This would then give the archer a close quarters blade to deploy if his position were overrun. Rather than having to pause to unsheathe another weapon, the bichwa would be at the ready even while acting as an archer.

I know the reference books speak of the bichwa being a preferred blade of assassins, and the like, because it could be easily concealed (which is true of any number of weapons), but also because it allowed the wielder to climb walls while having the blade drawn. I wonder if this utility may have served a more overt military function rather than a covert nefarious one.

Thoughts?

[ariel]

It was rather sad re-reading this topic.
Lew and Vandoo, Rest In Peace.....

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by shayde78

Rather than starting a new topic, and at the risk of reviving a thread that has long lain dormant, I've been pondering lately if the bichwa form could have developed as a knife specifically designed for archers.

The tightly fitting hilt with guard allows the weapon to be in one's right hand even while drawing a bow. This would then give the archer a close quarters blade to deploy if his position were overrun. Rather than having to pause to unsheathe another weapon, the bichwa would be at the ready even while acting as an archer.

I know the reference books speak of the bichwa being a preferred blade of assassins, and the like, because it could be easily concealed (which is true of any number of weapons), but also because it allowed the wielder to climb walls while having the blade drawn. I wonder if this utility may have served a more overt military function rather than a covert nefarious one.

Thoughts?

A very interesting theory by why just for archers? Why not also for gunners, they would need a close by weapon as well. I guess trying a simulation with either a bow or gun would be the next step. As for the bichwa being "easily concealed".....pure guess work I think until someone comes up with some type of information to back this theory up.

[Jim McDougall]

Absolutely brilliantly posted and queried Shayde!!! That is a wonderfully posed question, and it is great to see threads like this brought back to the fore. More importantly, the content and discussion in this thread reminds us of not only the exact reason we are studying weapons in this manner, but of our friends who helped us learn in years past.

While poignant indeed, it is great to have them here still, and to 'keep the fires burning'!!

Barry (VANDOO) and Lew had amazing collections which they always shared here, and more importantly their knowledge and inquisitiveness were, and still are an inspiration.

I really look forward to learning more on this theory regarding the bichwa and its related forms from those out there well versed on these , and those like me, always curious and anxious to learn more.

Thank you Shayde, well done!!

[Marcus]

The Tiv people of Africa also use loop daggers similar to the bichwa and it is generally assumed that these were by archers.

[shayde78]

Thank you for the kind words, Marcus. It is nice to receive such a welcome as a new member of this community. Ther

Thank you, Marcus! Yes, I have seen a number of loop-hilted blades that were listed as 'Archers' daggers' from Africa, and that planted the seed of this rumination of mine. Your pictures show perfectly how the dagger rests, not on the fingers, but up on the meaty part of the hand. This would leave the fingers totally free to operate a bow (or firearm, as estcrh suggested). Compared to the European brass knuckle type knives I associate with WWI in which the fingers are limited in their dexterity. The benefits of the knuckleduster knives is they allow for a much more secure grip for the actual knife work.

Thanks again for responding. In regards to the two members who are no longer with us, (and whose thread I appear to have hijacked), I am indebted to their contributions across these forums. There is an astounding amount of knowledge here that has been made accessible to the unwashed masses, such as myself. As a long time lover of all things pointy and sharp, this is most appreciated.

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

The reference to the scorpion or its sting appears to be more metaphorical, inferring the sting of death or to that effect.
Jim

.
Exactly. Metaphorical. But only for us not for Indian of 17-19th. For them the following words were cognate. Why do you think?

[Mercenary]

No ideas? There were no "scorpion's sting" dagger. Bichhua-scorpion, bichhua-nettle, bichhua-dagger - all of them STING.