TURKISH kindjal

Kubur · 1st October 2016, 05:59 PM

Hi
Do you have any good examples of Turkish Ottoman kindjal?
Not Greek and not Caucasian
Real Turkish Ottoman kindjals with straight or curved blade...
The only ones that I know are the Trabzon coral stuffed kindjals...
Do you know other styles?
Thanks

stelio · 2nd October 2016, 02:59 PM

Hello Kubur.

A few days ago I bought an ottoman kindjal but yet not I have in my hands. I will upload a photo that I found in the internet that is similar.
My opinion is this is the Ottoman type kindjal with the designation qama.

ariel · 2nd October 2016, 06:24 PM

Here is mine. Circassian style of decoration.

Kubur · 2nd October 2016, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stelio

Hello Kubur.

A few days ago I bought an ottoman kindjal but yet not I have in my hands. I will upload a photo that I found in the internet that is similar.
My opinion is this is the Ottoman type kindjal with the designation qama.

Hi Stelio,
It's exactly what i was looking for, thanks.
It's really a good catch, just a gorgeous dagger. What a shame that you don't have the scabbard. Some collectors call them Court daggers... and i think that is so wrong, let's call them daggers for wealthy people or noblemen daggers.
Best,
Kubur

Kubur · 2nd October 2016, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Here is mine. Circassian style of decoration.

Thank you Ariel!
I have a problem if the decoration is Caucasian, and maybe the blade.
What makes your kindjal Turkish? I know that you are very sharp for Caucasian affairs so i'm sure that you have good reasons but for a little head like me it's not obvious...
Best,
Kubur

stelio · 29th May 2017, 01:31 PM

Ottoman big kindjal or kama
Late 18th century early 19th century. His rhinoceros handle with golden patterns and writing on his blade.

Martin Lubojacky · 29th May 2017, 02:45 PM

Hi Stelio, what is the total length og this kinjal ? I gues no rivets/studs in the handle ....

stelio · 29th May 2017, 03:17 PM

Hello Martin!
The total length is 67 cm to 50 cm the length of the blade.It has two studs/rivets in the top of the handle( look photo) and there is some kind of glue inside.I think it's a mix of resin along with other materials.

Stelios

TVV · 29th May 2017, 07:13 PM

Here is a much more mundane example, which I believe is purely Turkish.

Teodor

Martin Lubojacky · 30th May 2017, 01:36 PM

Thanks Stelio. I asked, because till now I saw this kind of Ottoman (and I would say from Anatolian territory ?) rhino hilt (exactly the same shape - I mean especiall the upper part) without any rivets. In one case there were rivets, but attached only from decorative reason (it did not go through the steel tongue ; BTW - the steel tongue inside the hilt used to go to cca mid length of the hilt in these concrete cases). It may be that in your case the rivets were "supplemented" additionaly to reinforce the old dagger)

Also, very often it these cases, the blade used to taper immediately from the hilt (like very long triangle), which is not common in another qama styles.

estcrh · 21st July 2017, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi
Do you have any good examples of Turkish Ottoman kindjal?
Not Greek and not Caucasian
Real Turkish Ottoman kindjals with straight or curved blade...
The only ones that I know are the Trabzon coral stuffed kindjals...
Do you know other styles?
Thanks

Here is an example of an Ottoman bebut kindjal.

17in. overall, 9.5in blade, 1.75in. wide at the forte.

Kubur · 21st July 2017, 08:31 AM

Hi Guys
What about this nice chap?

estcrh · 22nd July 2017, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Guys
What about this nice chap?

Nice example!

Kubur · 22nd July 2017, 09:32 AM

Thank you Estrch
In fact I was expecting to find more like this one...
Your example is very nice too!

estcrh · 22nd July 2017, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Thank you Estrch
In fact I was expecting to find more like this one...
Your example is very nice too!

I looked around but could not find many of this type, do you have any measurements on yours?

Kubur · 22nd July 2017, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

I looked around but could not find many of this type, do you have any measurements on yours?

one similar with a straight blade
around 55-60cm

estcrh · 23rd July 2017, 10:45 AM

Another straight example.

estcrh · 23rd July 2017, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Thank you Ariel!
I have a problem if the decoration is Caucasian, and maybe the blade.
What makes your kindjal Turkish?

I also wonder what makes Ariels kindjal Ottoman.

Kubur · 19th August 2017, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Another straight example.

Is it possible to say that it is a Syrian ottoman kindjal????

More than Turkish

ariel · 19th August 2017, 11:08 AM

Sorry for piping in late.

My example has a mixture of decorative elements: niello decorations in the Circassian style and a characteristic South Caucasian/Turkish bar on the handle.
It suggests one of the two possibilities:
1). It came from the Turkey-dominated South Caucasian area ( such as Megrelia); or
2). It is the so-called "muhadjir"work by Circassian masters after their exile to the Ottoman Empire.

I have consulted with Kirill Rivkin, and he confirmed the Turkish connection.

Kubur, I might have misunderstood your question: if you were looking for a purely Turkish example, mine is not what you were looking for. If, however, you wanted to see Turkey-influenced one, mine would fit the bill.

1st October 2016, 05:59 PM	#1
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	TURKISH kindjal Hi Do you have any good examples of Turkish Ottoman kindjal? Not Greek and not Caucasian Real Turkish Ottoman kindjals with straight or curved blade... The only ones that I know are the Trabzon coral stuffed kindjals... Do you know other styles? Thanks

2nd October 2016, 02:59 PM	#2
stelio Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 97	Hello Kubur. A few days ago I bought an ottoman kindjal but yet not I have in my hands. I will upload a photo that I found in the internet that is similar. My opinion is this is the Ottoman type kindjal with the designation qama. Attached Images

2nd October 2016, 06:24 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Here is mine. Circassian style of decoration. Attached Images

29th May 2017, 01:31 PM	#6
stelio Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 97	ottoman qama / kama Ottoman big kindjal or kama Late 18th century early 19th century. His rhinoceros handle with golden patterns and writing on his blade. Attached Images

29th May 2017, 03:17 PM	#8
stelio Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 97	Hello Martin! The total length is 67 cm to 50 cm the length of the blade.It has two studs/rivets in the top of the handle( look photo) and there is some kind of glue inside.I think it's a mix of resin along with other materials. Stelios Attached Images

29th May 2017, 02:45 PM	#7
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	Hi Stelio, what is the total length og this kinjal ? I gues no rivets/studs in the handle ....

29th May 2017, 07:13 PM	#9
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,621	Here is a much more mundane example, which I believe is purely Turkish. Teodor Attached Images

30th May 2017, 01:36 PM	#10
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	Thanks Stelio. I asked, because till now I saw this kind of Ottoman (and I would say from Anatolian territory ?) rhino hilt (exactly the same shape - I mean especiall the upper part) without any rivets. In one case there were rivets, but attached only from decorative reason (it did not go through the steel tongue ; BTW - the steel tongue inside the hilt used to go to cca mid length of the hilt in these concrete cases). It may be that in your case the rivets were "supplemented" additionaly to reinforce the old dagger) Also, very often it these cases, the blade used to taper immediately from the hilt (like very long triangle), which is not common in another qama styles.

21st July 2017, 08:31 AM	#12
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi Guys What about this nice chap? Attached Images

22nd July 2017, 09:32 AM	#14
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Thank you Estrch In fact I was expecting to find more like this one... Your example is very nice too!

23rd July 2017, 10:45 AM	#17
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,497	Another straight example. Attached Images

19th August 2017, 11:08 AM	#20
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Sorry for piping in late. My example has a mixture of decorative elements: niello decorations in the Circassian style and a characteristic South Caucasian/Turkish bar on the handle. It suggests one of the two possibilities: 1). It came from the Turkey-dominated South Caucasian area ( such as Megrelia); or 2). It is the so-called "muhadjir"work by Circassian masters after their exile to the Ottoman Empire. I have consulted with Kirill Rivkin, and he confirmed the Turkish connection. Kubur, I might have misunderstood your question: if you were looking for a purely Turkish example, mine is not what you were looking for. If, however, you wanted to see Turkey-influenced one, mine would fit the bill.