Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 4th August 2015, 11:45 PM   #1
castellum aquilonis
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 47
Default Finally solved the riddle of my Bowie Knife

Have this piece for maybe 10 years now and think it is very nice.
Blade is Bowie like and grip is from a Hungarian sword.
Attached Images
     
castellum aquilonis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2015, 11:08 AM   #2
castellum aquilonis
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 47
Default ....

...
Attached Images
 
castellum aquilonis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2015, 11:24 AM   #3
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,178
Default

interesting bowie style knife, i wonder how they managed to thread the tang thru the brass grip to the peen on the end. any scabbard?
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2015, 07:54 PM   #4
castellum aquilonis
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 47
Default Handle

I assume the Handle is hollow and the tang goes through to the end of the head.
Probably everything fixed with putty.
Could be 19th century.
Attached Images
 
castellum aquilonis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2015, 11:04 PM   #5
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,938
Default

Outstanding research work Castellum!! It does appear that your knife has likely been refurbished from an apparently Hungarian dress sword of uncertain period, as seen here from an unknown reference source. The regal figure on this sword is remarkably similar to the hilt on yours as is much of the motif.

Did you suspect this knife or its blade was Hungarian prior to matching it to this reference. Would there be any reference in the publication as to the type sword this is and its period?

For readers, I would note that the interesting figure posted in the last entry is the well known Wild Bill Hickok, from an 1869 photograph taken in a studio. The knife he has inserted in his sash is likely a studio prop.
The 'Bowie knife' is the legendary knife of the American west, which in time became synonymous with virtually most knives large size and with a guard of varying form.
Fascinating photo for context and gives nice allusion to the flair and image of these kinds of knives.

Thank you for sharing this interesting knife, and the image of seldom seen Hungarian sword, we don't see nearly enough about them here, hope to see more!!!
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2015, 11:35 PM   #6
castellum aquilonis
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 47
Default Sword

The pictures are from this website:... - hope it is ok to post them as I could not find any at all and none could help me - - "GENHOA" on the blade
I very much liked the resemblance of Wild Bill Hickok to the King, which is displayed on the grip, which also could be a Siebenbürgen ;-) King
Attached Images
     

Last edited by fernando; 6th August 2015 at 09:47 AM. Reason: No link to active sales sources, as per rules
castellum aquilonis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th August 2015, 09:07 AM   #7
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,178
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by castellum aquilonis
I assume the Handle is hollow and the tang goes through to the end of the head.
Probably everything fixed with putty.
Could be 19th century.
the 's' shaped tang/grip would, even if hollow, prevent the tang from inserting fully unless the side of the grip has a slot not shown in the photo to allow you to curve it in. similar to the scabbard slot on true parabolic curved sword blades as opposed to circular arc curves. i am assuming the steel bit on his crown is a peened tang end. the second photo shows a more brassy bump. it could be a stub tang held in by cutler's cement.

p.s. - nobody in there right mind would carry a razor sharp bowie knife like that. photographers (and painters) were not practically minded warriors or soldiers, so a bit of dramatic license is allowed...civil war studio 'portait' photographers frequently staged the photos using their own prop weapons, and even clothing and uniform items. bill likely had it in a belt scabbard but the photogtapher couldn't see it in his pose, so he had him stick it in his belt. i would have told him where i'd stick it if he didn't get on with the session....

Last edited by kronckew; 6th August 2015 at 09:18 AM.
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th August 2015, 10:12 PM   #8
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,938
Default

Thank you Castellum (interesting name BTW), for your note concerning the source for the images. Naturally if it is a website for arms sales, then it is not able to be posted here...but I do understand that this example perfectly showed the possible source for your knife.

I do appreciate more expanded view of the blade, which reveals that the one on the example from this source, appears to be one of the Styrian trade forms' (suggested by the GENHOA name), a common supply source for many Hungarian sword producers. The 'GENHOA' is corrupted spelling for Genoa, as often used for Styrian markings as well as the 'sickle' marks.

Enjoyable and colorful comparison of 'Wild Bill' to the 'king' !! (also to the fabled Vlad!)......indeed many considered Will Bill (for a time) to be 'king of the pistoleers'.
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2015, 01:27 AM   #9
JamesKelly
Member
 
JamesKelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Michigan, U.S.A.
Posts: 108
Default

Who is the gentleman in the painting?
Rather looks like Vlad Tepes
JamesKelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2015, 12:27 PM   #10
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,178
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesKelly
Who is the gentleman in the painting?
Rather looks like Vlad Tepes
yup, it's good ol' dracula.

Vlad III, Prince of Wallachia, was a member of the House of Drăculești, of the House of Basarab, also known, using his patronymic, as Drăculea
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2020, 09:20 AM   #11
castellum aquilonis
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 47
Default Doorhandle Bowie :-)

.....forgot to post these
Attached Images
    
castellum aquilonis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th December 2020, 06:33 PM   #12
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,113
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
yup, it's good ol' dracula.

Vlad III, Prince of Wallachia, was a member of the House of Drăculești, of the House of Basarab, also known, using his patronymic, as Drăculea
Indeed it is. Though i don't believe Wallachia ever ruled over the Kingdom of Hungary and at the time of Vlad III i believe their armies were actually keeping even the Ottoman Empire at bay. So i don't quite understand the connection to Vlad III or why his portrait was included in this thread if this hilt is from a Hungarian sword.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th December 2020, 11:10 PM   #13
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,290
Cool

Interesting that C.A.'s hilt is the only one that has stippling. That must have been done by hand after casting.
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2020, 08:21 PM   #14
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,938
Default

I have remained really intrigued by this unusually mounted 'Bowie', and by the fact that the hilt is apparently repurposed from a Hungarian sword, which seems to have been of commemorative character of 19th c.

Looking into the complexities of Eastern European history, it seems these countries as well as the Balkans were in constant turmoil. It was always unclear to me what was Romanian, Wallachian, Hungarian etc. and which were allied or under the power of another. It is unclear which 'Hungarian' king (presumed by the Hungarian coat of arms occurring on some with this figure) is represented on this hilt, but it would seem that it may well be to the commemorative nature of the hilt.

Whatever the case, the use of this hilt, which although presumed to be 19th c. and seems to have earlier counterparts, on a 'Bowie' blade , is most interesting. While we may presume the remounted knife to be American, it is quite possible it may have been made in Europe. There was profound interest in the 'wild west' in the late 19th c. particularly after the Buffalo Bill performances.

On the other hand, during the Hungarian revolution of 1848, there was apparently a notable departure of those fleeing the conflict against Austrian power. Many of these came to America, and it is somewhat plausible that such a sword as this might have come to America, and the owner may have chosen to have his heirloom continue in a more viable context as a knife.
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.