A poke in the eye with a sharp stick

Tim Simmons · 19th September 2010, 11:29 AM

My latest thing. I think it is the same length as the fancy one I have already. This new one is a lot thicker and more heavy. Sold as a Australian Aborgine throwing stick. It would be good if some real facts could be found on these sharp "fighting?" sticks. Just got to get my hands on it.

Lew · 19th September 2010, 01:58 PM

Hi Tim

Can you post some clearer pics of your stick please. From what I can see this stick seems rather plain and does not strike me as being aboriginal?

Tim Simmons · 19th September 2010, 03:13 PM

These are all the pictures I have at the moment. I am not worried about the plain look. I will look for other plain weapon pictures.

fearn · 19th September 2010, 06:07 PM

The name escapes me right now, but didn't the filipinos have a double-ended wooden throwing stick?

F

Ron Anderson · 20th September 2010, 09:08 AM

Hi Tim

I've not seen that before, but it does strike me as aboriginal in its style. All I can really tell from your stick is that it seems to be certainly early 20th century or earlier.

There is such a variety of fighting sticks here. And you're right, there's not enough in terms of solid reference material on aboriginal implements.

Is that mulga wood, do you know? This would be a significant clue as to its origins.

Lew · 20th September 2010, 12:57 PM

Ron

It does not look like mulga wood to me maybe some other type of wood. The only thing that bothers me is the lack of hand carved designs on the wood. Older examples usually show carved lines plus the older sticks are sleeker and more streamlined. This stick seems crudely made so I would place in around 1930 or so?

Tim Simmons · 20th September 2010, 08:08 PM

With luck I might have this tomorrow. I am very excited about this piece. The plain functional form does not detract from purpuse or age for me, indeed it does look like an old piece to me. I would not like to say Australia as the definate origin. The record I have of such stick weapon is this plate of early Micronesian artefacts. If one thinks of the hundreds of islands besides Australia using wood weapons, we could be looking at a vast area. If one googles "Micronesian or Polynesian double daggers" or just daggers it is clear that this form is far from an isolated creation. The fancy one in the pictures is 70cm long and 3.25 cm thick the new one according to the seller is 68.5cm long and 4cm thick. I will be able to make a better appraisal when I have it. As regards to undecorated Autralian weapons there are many example is "The Art of Eastern Australia" I think copies are still available from Amazon.

Tim Simmons · 20th September 2010, 08:49 PM

I am not stating anything but this picture of a wood dagger from the "Bishop Museum, Honolulu" is not a million miles away in all aspects from the double pointed stick.

Ron Anderson · 21st September 2010, 02:11 AM

Hi Tim

And don't forget Africa.

That last carved stick could so easily come from South Africa too.

Regards
Ron

Tim Simmons · 22nd September 2010, 07:00 PM

I can understand if you are not into this kind of thing it is realy difficult to enthuse about it. I get the same non plus feeling about much of the heralded poor silver items we see. Fortunately I rather like this sort of thing. In my limited knowledge it does look Australian. The fact that the bark is only partly removed seems to suggest this. What may appear to be crude might in fact be a sophistication we do not fully understand. The bark and wood itself do make a good grip in absence of a carved grip as seen in the palm wood example. I like the fire hardened points which show that the wood is not as naturally hard like palm wood. The simple nature of this example might be determind by the enviroment such as a desert with a shortage of suitable wood? The bark is a thin paper cover type of bark. As to the age who knows? It is far from recent however one views recent. There is a good patina which I try to show next to an old Fijian club. I do believe there is a patina scale? I think it is great, and couple of points.

1 There is a tradition.
2 With or without fancy, these example show the same form.
3 It does seem to us a strange piece of wood to select for further working.
4 People actually fought with these weapons.

fearn · 22nd September 2010, 08:37 PM

Thanks for the size comparison. Now all you need to do is learn the combat applications, and you'll be good to go.

I'm looking forward to the double watermelon skewer. That will be fun to watch.

Best,

F

inveterate · 22nd September 2010, 10:28 PM

It does look Aussie and in these better pics I think it is Mulga wood. Cheers Rod

Lew · 22nd September 2010, 11:47 PM

Yup it does look like mulga now. See what good clear pics can do.

Ron Anderson · 23rd September 2010, 02:14 AM

Hi Tim

I share your enthusiasm for these simple unadorned forms. It is very Australian. As my rock pictures intended to show (stones I posted way back) Aboriginal weapons and tools were often very utilitarian in form. But there is a certain genius to the simplicity too.

I'm still learning a lot about Aboriginal artefacts. I believe Mulga wood indicates it is likely to be from South Australia, or perhaps West Australia.

The stick is obviously stone carved. I can't see any rasp marks. So it seems to be 1930s or earlier. Certainly not recent. And items of that age are quickly pounced upon over here. They're not easy to find at good prices.

I'd say there is a bit of a tradition on double headed aboriginal implements. Double-ended stick knives, etc. are not uncommon.

It's a nice piece I would quickly add to my own collection.

Cheers
Ron

Ron Anderson · 23rd September 2010, 02:16 AM

Another useful thing to remember about Aboriginal items is that they are frequently multi-purpose.

The darkened tips on your stick suggest that in addition to a fighting stick, it may have been used to tend a fire, or even cook.

Worth investigating anyway.

19th September 2010, 11:29 AM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	A poke in the eye with a sharp stick My latest thing. I think it is the same length as the fancy one I have already. This new one is a lot thicker and more heavy. Sold as a Australian Aborgine throwing stick. It would be good if some real facts could be found on these sharp "fighting?" sticks. Just got to get my hands on it. Attached Images

19th September 2010, 03:13 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	These are all the pictures I have at the moment. I am not worried about the plain look. I will look for other plain weapon pictures. Attached Images

20th September 2010, 08:08 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	With luck I might have this tomorrow. I am very excited about this piece. The plain functional form does not detract from purpuse or age for me, indeed it does look like an old piece to me. I would not like to say Australia as the definate origin. The record I have of such stick weapon is this plate of early Micronesian artefacts. If one thinks of the hundreds of islands besides Australia using wood weapons, we could be looking at a vast area. If one googles "Micronesian or Polynesian double daggers" or just daggers it is clear that this form is far from an isolated creation. The fancy one in the pictures is 70cm long and 3.25 cm thick the new one according to the seller is 68.5cm long and 4cm thick. I will be able to make a better appraisal when I have it. As regards to undecorated Autralian weapons there are many example is "The Art of Eastern Australia" I think copies are still available from Amazon. Attached Images

20th September 2010, 08:49 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I am not stating anything but this picture of a wood dagger from the "Bishop Museum, Honolulu" is not a million miles away in all aspects from the double pointed stick. Attached Images

22nd September 2010, 07:00 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I can understand if you are not into this kind of thing it is realy difficult to enthuse about it. I get the same non plus feeling about much of the heralded poor silver items we see. Fortunately I rather like this sort of thing. In my limited knowledge it does look Australian. The fact that the bark is only partly removed seems to suggest this. What may appear to be crude might in fact be a sophistication we do not fully understand. The bark and wood itself do make a good grip in absence of a carved grip as seen in the palm wood example. I like the fire hardened points which show that the wood is not as naturally hard like palm wood. The simple nature of this example might be determind by the enviroment such as a desert with a shortage of suitable wood? The bark is a thin paper cover type of bark. As to the age who knows? It is far from recent however one views recent. There is a good patina which I try to show next to an old Fijian club. I do believe there is a patina scale? I think it is great, and couple of points. 1 There is a tradition. 2 With or without fancy, these example show the same form. 3 It does seem to us a strange piece of wood to select for further working. 4 People actually fought with these weapons. Attached Images

19th September 2010, 01:58 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi Tim Can you post some clearer pics of your stick please. From what I can see this stick seems rather plain and does not strike me as being aboriginal?

19th September 2010, 06:07 PM	#4
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	The name escapes me right now, but didn't the filipinos have a double-ended wooden throwing stick? F

20th September 2010, 09:08 AM	#5
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Hi Tim I've not seen that before, but it does strike me as aboriginal in its style. All I can really tell from your stick is that it seems to be certainly early 20th century or earlier. There is such a variety of fighting sticks here. And you're right, there's not enough in terms of solid reference material on aboriginal implements. Is that mulga wood, do you know? This would be a significant clue as to its origins.

20th September 2010, 12:57 PM	#6
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Ron It does not look like mulga wood to me maybe some other type of wood. The only thing that bothers me is the lack of hand carved designs on the wood. Older examples usually show carved lines plus the older sticks are sleeker and more streamlined. This stick seems crudely made so I would place in around 1930 or so?

21st September 2010, 02:11 AM	#9
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Hi Tim And don't forget Africa. That last carved stick could so easily come from South Africa too. Regards Ron

22nd September 2010, 08:37 PM	#11
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Thanks for the size comparison. Now all you need to do is learn the combat applications, and you'll be good to go. I'm looking forward to the double watermelon skewer. That will be fun to watch. Best, F

22nd September 2010, 10:28 PM	#12
inveterate Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 58	It does look Aussie and in these better pics I think it is Mulga wood. Cheers Rod

22nd September 2010, 11:47 PM	#13
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Yup it does look like mulga now. See what good clear pics can do.

23rd September 2010, 02:14 AM	#14
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Hi Tim I share your enthusiasm for these simple unadorned forms. It is very Australian. As my rock pictures intended to show (stones I posted way back) Aboriginal weapons and tools were often very utilitarian in form. But there is a certain genius to the simplicity too. I'm still learning a lot about Aboriginal artefacts. I believe Mulga wood indicates it is likely to be from South Australia, or perhaps West Australia. The stick is obviously stone carved. I can't see any rasp marks. So it seems to be 1930s or earlier. Certainly not recent. And items of that age are quickly pounced upon over here. They're not easy to find at good prices. I'd say there is a bit of a tradition on double headed aboriginal implements. Double-ended stick knives, etc. are not uncommon. It's a nice piece I would quickly add to my own collection. Cheers Ron

23rd September 2010, 02:16 AM	#15
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Another useful thing to remember about Aboriginal items is that they are frequently multi-purpose. The darkened tips on your stick suggest that in addition to a fighting stick, it may have been used to tend a fire, or even cook. Worth investigating anyway.