BANGKINANG & BAHARI kerises?

[ganjawulung]

We – in Java – call kerises such these, as Bangkinang (the longer), and Bahari kerises (the shorter one). But of course some of you know better than me what they really are. The shorter keris with specific "greneng" measured 42 cm (not including the pesi) and the longer is 54 cm long. More information on these kinds of keris, please?

[PenangsangII]

Salam,

The Malays of Sumatra & Peninsula call these dapors as keris Penyalang. Some would simply call them keris Panjang.

BTW, are the hilts original to the blade, or are they much later additions? I never saw this type of hilt in a keris Penyalang / Panjang before.

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody,

From the viewpoint of an Oerang Soenda:

- based only on length; yes, the short one (LHS) can be called 'bahari' and the longer one (RHS) a 'Bangkinang'

- the Bangkinang was developed in answer to the Portuguese rapier, mainly for use on horse-back (read 'pony-back'). So it was straight (no eloeks/waves) and concentrated more on steel content than pamor/damascene patterns). Also, the Bangkinang did not have a tonggong/back-bone). Last of all, the bedor/tang had a flat section to prevent rotation.

Best.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

... the Bangkinang was developed in answer to the Portuguese rapier, mainly for use on horse-back (read 'pony-back'). So it was straight (no eloeks/waves) and concentrated more on steel content than pamor/damascene patterns). Also, the Bangkinang did not have a tonggong/back-bone). Last of all, the bedor/tang had a flat section to prevent rotation.

Sumuhun (thanks -- in Soenda dialect), kang Amuk... Once again I post pics of the blades but without hilt. The pesi (or 'bedor' in your term) of the longer keris is not flat as you mentioned. But round -- though bigger than the normal kerises, even a bit bigger than Balinese blade (but not longer).

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

The Malays of Sumatra & Peninsula call these dapors as keris Penyalang. Some would simply call them keris Panjang.

BTW, are the hilts original to the blade, or are they much later additions? I never saw this type of hilt in a keris Penyalang / Panjang before.

Dear Penangsang, the hilt belongs to the longer one. It is not ivory, but perhaps old 'duyung' teeth. I got the 'keris panjang' with such hilt (keris Bangkinang in Javanese term -- Bangkinang is a name of a small place in the southwest of Pekanbaru Riau, Sumatera to the direction of Padang, Sumatera Barat. This place, believed to be the 'origin' of such keris model or at least popularized from this place before 19th century). The style of sheath is Palembang, but the wooden "gandar" (blade section sheath) is no more original. Maybe broken, and changed with trembalo wood gandar..

[sukuh]

Dear Ganjawulung,

On several occasions I heard people talk about the "executionerskeris" when the subject was bangkinang.
Please tell me, do you think that remark is plausible or just a story?

thanks Sukuh

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by sukuh

On several occasions I heard people talk about the "executionerskeris" when the subject was bangkinang.
Please tell me, do you think that remark is plausible or just a story?

Dear Sukuh, I think David van Duuren has written on this matter in his book, The Kris (1996, 1998). Please page 87,

"... the slender and straight keris panjang, or 'long kris', which also used for executions. One of those executions was described by a Dutch eyewitness. The prisoner crouched on the ground, his back to the executioner. Below his left shoulder was glued a thick wad of cotton fluff, the 'rose'. When the moment had come, the executioner attacked with a swift and perfect thrust, penetrating straignt through the back and into the heart. Death was instantaneous; the cotton absorbed the small quantity of flowing blood...,"

"In earlier days, execution by the kris was, in Indonesia, to some degree considered a 'good dead'; it was much more dignified than simply having one's head cut off...,"

[sukuh]

In earlier days, execution by the kris was, in Indonesia, to some degree considered a 'good dead'; it was much more dignified than simply having one's head cut off...

Dear Ganjawulung,

If I had to choose I would prefer that method too...
So, correct me if I'm wrong, bangkinang was used for that purpose but not specialy made for it, as I was told..?

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by sukuh

So, correct me if I'm wrong, bangkinang was used for that purpose but not specialy made for it, as I was told..?

Dear Sukuh, I suppose you are correct. As does the writer of "The Kris" book: ..."which also used for executions...," So, the "executioner kris" is not only for executing dead penalty, but also for other purposes...

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo again,

I was in a hurry before and made a mistake.
Assuming a bedor/paksi/tang of 12-13cm., both blades can be called 'Bangkinang' based on length only.
Also:
Cannot see from pictures, but if the gandi (front part of base of blade) of the longer one has a tikel halis/eyebrow shaped like an inverted comma, then it has the 'Bangkinang' form.
But, the thick tang makes me ask: maybe it is a Peninsular version ... or a revised keris ageung/large Wetan/Jawa?
Bahari should have the same form as Bangkinang, just shorter. So I am suspicious of the shorter one. Is it Bali/Jawa keris?

By 'duyung teeth', I assume you mean the male Dugong tusk ivory.

About keris executions:

Traditionally keris executions were done with keris as a mark of respect and with no specific form of such keris.
Execution was done from the back.

With the long keris, execution was done from the collar-bone area.
That is why the long keris is called 'penyalang', from the word 'salang'... a corruption of the word sasalang/clavicle/collar-bone.

Best

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

...Cannot see from pictures, but if the gandi (front part of base of blade) of the longer one has a tikel halis/eyebrow shaped like an inverted comma, then it has the 'Bangkinang' form.

Yes, it has a kind of "tikel alis" shaped like an inverted comma near the gandhik. I will post the clearer pics later tommorrow. The blade is too heavily etched with warangan...

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

But, the thick tang makes me ask: maybe it is a Peninsular version ... or a revised keris ageung/large Wetan/Jawa?
Bahari should have the same form as Bangkinang, just shorter. So I am suspicious of the shorter one. Is it Bali/Jawa keris?

I am not sure, whether this is a Peninsular version or keris "Jawa Wetan" as you just mentioned. And the shorter keris, I don't think the shorter is javanese kind.The form of "greneng" is not javanese at all. Usually, javanese kerises have "dha" form greneng (like "dha" character in javanese alphabet). And this not.

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

By 'duyung teeth', I assume you mean the male Dugong tusk ivory.
About keris executions:
Traditionally keris executions were done with keris as a mark of respect and with no specific form of such keris. Execution was done from the back.
With the long keris, execution was done from the collar-bone area.
That is why the long keris is called 'penyalang', from the word 'salang'... a corruption of the word sasalang/clavicle/collar-bone.

That's what I meant, Kang Amuk. Dugong tusk ivory... Thank you for the useful information on "keris penyalang"...

Ganjawulung

[VVV]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

...the Bangkinang was developed in answer to the Portuguese rapier, mainly for use on horse-back (read 'pony-back')...Last of all, the bedor/tang had a flat section to prevent rotation.

I have heard this claimed before, but developed for the navy.
Do you have any source for this claim as I would like to know more about it?

I have never seen any panjang/penyalang with flat tang but that's maybe because I haven't examined any Javanese???

Michael

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Cannot see from pictures, but if the gandi (front part of base of blade) of the longer one has a tikel halis/eyebrow shaped like an inverted comma, then it has the 'Bangkinang' form.

Picture from the gandik part of the blade. Like an inverted comma...

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by VVV

I have heard this claimed before, but developed for the navy.
Do you have any source for this claim as I would like to know more about it?

I have never seen any panjang/penyalang with flat tang but that's maybe because I haven't examined any Javanese???

Michael

Hullo Michael,

I was talking about the Bangkinang keris. At the time, Bangkinang was an even smaller place then it is today. It was a very isolated place (dense vegetation etc.) and formed one of the 'rantau'/outer-regions of the Minang empire (similar to the 'kejawen' areas of the Jawa empire). Most travelling was done on horseback.I don't believe it would've had a navy, so I don't know what navy you mean..
Perhaps I used the wrong words: '......the Bangkinang was developed in answer to the Portuguese rapier, mainly for use on horse-back (read 'pony-back')...Last of all, the bedor/tang had a flat section to prevent rotation...'.
I meant that the shape was influenced by the rapier and its length more suited for horse-back. Also, I meant that the tang was round, but that only a section of it had been flattened (e.g. in the middle or at the tip).
(BTW ... traditionally, tangs were not always round. They could be helical-twisted, rectangular, with a hole at the tip etc.)
Since the Bangkinang became popular throughout the region, it also became imitated by local smiths, who may or may not have followed it's protocol.
As for sources,what can I say? I am neither an expert nor an academic, so I don't file/document everything. What I know and believe, I have picked up along the way (especially during my time spent under the tutelage of elders at my kaboejoetan (centre for heritage/tradition).
Perhaps someone who is knowledgeable on the Minang Pagar Roejoeng empire will give you answers.

Best.

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Picture from the gandik part of the blade. Like an inverted comma...

Hullo again,

Is that a ridge/backbone I see running along the middle of the blade?
If it is, then I wouldn't call it a traditional Bangkinang but I would settle for a panjang/penyalang.

Best.

[PenangsangII]

Thank you Amuk, all this while I was thinking that bangkinang, alang, panjang were just names depending on where the keris was found. I'm interested to know more about keris bangkinang that has flat tang in the middle section. And it would be very interesting to know that this type was the Minang's answer to Portuguese rapier. From the information you gathered along the way, was there any description on how the bangkinang keris was used against the rapier? Was it used by the Minang ppl similar to the way the Portuguese used their rapiers?

Thank you in advance.

[rasdan]

Hello everybody,

In the state of Perak this type of keris are also known as Baur. If i'm not mistaken, it's an Acheh word according to our forumite Raja Muda. He heard it during his trip there.

http://www.perak.gov.my/sultan/english/baur.htm

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by rasdan

In the state of Perak this type of keris are also known as Baur. If i'm not mistaken, it's an Acheh word according to our forumite Raja Muda. He heard it during his trip there.

Beautiful pieces of pusakas. Were all the pusaka blades made by olden local smith? Or from somewhere else? But the sheath was localised. I see that the two last pieces, look like Mindanao sundang...

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody,

Firstly, I am sorry for making a mistake earlier on. What I meant was that the hilt is 12-13 cm.The tang would be about 10 cm.
BTW... the hilt was traditionally curved and conical, tapering toward the nggania (base of blade); variations such as Tapak Koeda etc. was influenced by this keris' popularity in other regions.

I must say again that the Bangkinang was not developed to COMBAT the rapier; rather, it was as the result of the locals being impressed by the rapier i.e. their adaptation of it.

The Bangkinang would not have been used in the same way as a rapier. It would have been a mainly stabbing/thrusting weapon ( similar to the Soenda Pedang Tewek, which in turn was similar to a rapier, with a very slender blade but slightly curved toward its sharp inner edge).

FYI ... Bangkinang has strong links with the peninsula: e.g. the sultan of Melaka sought sanctuary there when he fled from the Portuguese; Datuk Bahaman/Seman Tanah of Pahang was of Bangkinang blood. Maybe more info can be gleaned from these areas.

Earlier I said I was suspicious about the shorter blade. It reminds me of the long straight keris from the Tengger, Eastern Java area (whose form has been extant since the 12th. - 13th. century and which also has a spine along the middle of the blade).

I'm sorry I can't be of further help.

Best.

[rasdan]

Hi Ganjawulung,

I never seen the blades, even if I had seen them i can't tell the origin. Sorry.. The last two i think are Malay sundangs. There's an old photo somewhere in this forum posted by Mr. VVV (if i'm not mistaken) showing the Sultan of Perak with his followers. One of them is holding a Sundang.

[kai]

Hello Amuk,

Thanks for your contributions!

The tang would be about 10 cm.

Are you sure?

Here's a pic of a pesi which seems to be unaltered and is only about half the length you give. (I'm going to post the exact measurements later.)

I may have seen a dozen other pesi of this keris type but all had unspectacular sizes. Any pic of those (partially) flattened pesi would be great, too!

Regards,
Kai

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by rasdan

I never seen the blades, even if I had seen them i can't tell the origin. Sorry.. The last two i think are Malay sundangs. There's an old photo somewhere in this forum posted by Mr. VVV (if i'm not mistaken) showing the Sultan of Perak with his followers. One of them is holding a Sundang.

Thank you, Rasdan, for the useful information. Is there any significant difference, between Malay sundangs and Filipino sundangs?

Originally Posted by kai

Here's a pic of a pesi which seems to be unaltered and is only about half the length you give. (I'm going to post the exact measurements later.)

I may have seen a dozen other pesi of this keris type but all had unspectacular sizes. Any pic of those (partially) flattened pesi would be great, too!

(Additional info for Kai and Amuk) the supposed to be a "bangkinang" I've shown before, has a pesi/tang's size of 6,5 cm long, round but bigger than normal. But the supposed to be "bahari" keris, is quite much longer -- 7,8 cm but smaller than the "bangkinang". Here are the pics...

[David]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Thank you, Rasdan, for the useful information. Is there any significant difference, between Malay sundangs and Filipino sundangs?

Just a technicality, but i believe that the word "sundang" is not specific to keris in the Philippines. It is a word used to describe many different swords. It seems that kris or kalis are more specific.

[kai]

Hello Ganja,

Is there any significant difference, between Malay sundangs and Filipino sundangs?

The scabbards are definitely Malay. Malayan keris sundang often have blades which seem to originate from Moro smiths; those of local Malay manufacture often have distinct features.

the supposed to be a "bangkinang" I've shown before, has a pesi/tang's size of 6,5 cm long, round but bigger than normal.

Yeah, that looks like what I'm used to.

BTW, my piece has a pesi length of 6.0 cm (2.36") and a blade (without pesi) of 51.4 cm (20.24").

But the supposed to be "bahari" keris, is quite much longer -- 7,8 cm but smaller than the "bangkinang".

Thanks for the pics. I have to admit that this one looks odd to me: It's certainly not a regular keris bahari and I suppose it's not from Sumatra nor Malaya. I know that Alan has quite a few distinct examples - maybe he can comment on Javanese styles?

BTW, are you sure, this is an old blade? For the time being, I even wouldn't want to exclude a recent Madurese origin...

Regards,
Kai

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by kai

... Thanks for the pics. I have to admit that this one looks odd to me: It's certainly not a regular keris bahari and I suppose it's not from Sumatra nor Malaya.

BTW, are you sure, this is an old blade? For the time being, I even wouldn't want to exclude a recent Madurese origin...

Regards,
Kai

My opinion is with Kai on the piece with the longer pesi. The base area (sor-soran) seems suspicious.

[rasdan]

Hi Ganjawulung,

Sorry for the late reply. I have quite limited internet access at the moment. IMHO the main difference is the "bangun" of the blade. Its hard to explain in words actually..

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by kai

Thanks for the pics. I have to admit that this one looks odd to me: It's certainly not a regular keris bahari and I suppose it's not from Sumatra nor Malaya. I know that Alan has quite a few distinct examples - maybe he can comment on Javanese styles?

BTW, are you sure, this is an old blade? For the time being, I even wouldn't want to exclude a recent Madurese origin...

Yes, Kai, quite sure it is not a recent one (from grasping the metal blade). Nor madurese origin. (I hope Ki Jayamalelo could comment on this blade. He has seen this blade when we met in Jakarta last Sunday... couldn't he?)

This more close up picture on the base of the blade...

[Newsteel]

Ganjawulung,

I would categorized both kerises posted above as Keris Panjang. Basically it is the form and length that makes it such. You may have heard about keris panjang, anak alang and bahari. Typically most, infact 90% of this were found throughout Sumatra (Riau, Bangkinang, Palembang, Padang, Jambi, etc) and the Malay Peninsular (Malaysia). How can we differentiate the keris from which part/region is another question.

Keris bahari refers to the same form (dapur?) but normally less than 12 inches long. Length of 12-16 inches would be anak alang, and longer than 16 inches can be called a keris panjang. This is just my roughly guide.

[Newsteel]

I thought that your keris panjang with kembang kacang is rather 'unusual'. I have seen many but obviously not all. Typically an old 18th - 19th century straight panjang (panjang lurus) would have no kembang kacang. Only keris panjang with luks (very very rare) would have kembang kacang.

The other panjang (with that 'inverted comma at the gandik) is more common. This inverted comma like is typical found in Minang and Palembang keris - bahari and panjang.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Newsteel

...Typically most, infact 90% of this were found throughout Sumatra (Riau, Bangkinang, Palembang, Padang, Jambi, etc) and the Malay Peninsular (Malaysia).

Thanks a lot, Newsteel for the valuable information on "keris panjang". And I think, it is interesting too to know more about Bangkinang. I found some interesting notes on Bangkinang in the past.

Bangkinang now, is only a sub-district in Riau Province, Sumatera (Indonesia). But in mid 16th to the end of 19th century -- according to a note -- Bangkinang was popular because of their spesific kerises. This model of kerises then had been imitated by keris makers in Bangka island, Belitung and the neighboring Kampar area. The form of kerises in these areas, was told quite similar. But the size of unique Bangkinang kerises, were the longest -- about 49cm to 68 cm. The form of warangka -- the upper part of the sheath -- was similar to keris sheath from Islamic state of Demak (Central Java) in the 16th century. Half moon curve, or "wulan tumanggal" (compare with the similar name but in different language in Malay, "dua hari bulan" sheath).

In history of Sumatera, Bangkinang was an old but important town. After the fall of Sriwijaya empire (around Palembang now), Bangkinang developped as an important transit place for traders from Sumatera Barat (West Sumatera), especially from Pagaruyung to Pekanbaru and to the east coast of Sumatera. It was told, that these West Sumatera traders, they brought and sold kerises from Bangkinang to Riau Island and even to Malay Peninsula...

It still needs more scientific research on this, and more research on historical sites as Candi (Temple) Muara Takus, and also old inscriptions (prasasti) in Batu Basurai, near Bangkinang to unveil the mystery of "keris panjang" origin...

[rahman]

In history of Sumatera, Bangkinang was an old but important town. After the fall of Sriwijaya empire (around Palembang now), Bangkinang developped as an important transit place for traders from Sumatera Barat (West Sumatera), especially from Pagaruyung to Pekanbaru and to the east coast of Sumatera. It was told, that these West Sumatera traders, they brought and sold kerises from Bangkinang to Riau Island and even to Malay Peninsula...

It still needs more scientific research on this, and more research on historical sites as Candi (Temple) Muara Takus, and also old inscriptions (prasasti) in Batu Basurai, near Bangkinang to unveil the mystery of "keris panjang" origin...

This is quite consistent with what the late Pak Bambang said of Bangkinang in his Ensiklopedi Keris. Of the temples/candis, a google search on Bangkinang can yield some info. Indeed, Bangkinang remained an important transit point between East and West Sumatra today as it was in the 16th Century.

Pak Bambang also credited the popularity of the Keris Bahari to its small size, which makes it easy to conceal.

The spread of the Keris Panjang throughout the Malay areas, as explained earlier, is only one wave. We have to also credit the Minangs who migrated to the Malay Peninsula and establshed the state of Negri Sembilan. Indeed, the keris panjang figures highly here as symbols of authority. According to researchers of Malay keris, the keris panjang is used as a keris penyalang (execution weapon) by the headmen and tribal leaders because only the Sultan has the power to order execution by beheading.

It is interesting that in the Perak royal regalia mentioned earlier, most of the keris panjang are named 'Orang Kaya', a title given to Malay noblemen.

What's the difference between a Sumatran and Malay keris panjang, or indeed of the anak alang and bahari? After looking over a few, I conclude it's in the presence or absence of the 'inverted comma'. The Malay blades have no punctuation mark

FYI ... Bangkinang has strong links with the peninsula: e.g. the sultan of Melaka sought sanctuary there when he fled from the Portuguese; Datuk Bahaman/Seman Tanah of Pahang was of Bangkinang blood. Maybe more info can be gleaned from these areas.

I hesitate on this comment by Amuk though. The Sultan of Malacca retreated to Johor after the Portugese invasion of 1511 and set up a sultanate that lasted until 1699 in the Johor Lama/Kota Tinggi area. I have no info on Datuk Bahaman.


Just my dua sen worth.