Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 22nd September 2018, 01:19 PM   #1
Anthony G.
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 463
Default Keris Kamardikan

Please comments if any. Thank you.
Attached Images
     
Anthony G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2018, 06:36 PM   #2
Seerp Visser
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Belgium
Posts: 37
Default

When you think, every variation is invented, the real artist comes up with something new..... Beautiful
Seerp Visser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2018, 12:31 AM   #3
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,892
Default

Actually Seerp, both stylistically and in terms of motif, everything in this keris is well established, nothing new here, except of course the entire concept, which is a beautiful piece of extremely clever modern keris art.

But this pamor motif is something that is very seldom encountered, in fact, in spite of my more than 60 years of contact with the keris, and very lengthy periods spent in Jawa and Bali, I have not yet handled a keris with this pamor motif. Whoever welded this pattern is a great master of the art.

The name of the motif is Tamarind Fibre ( Jarot Asem). I have not ever heard a talismanic value given to this motif by anybody I have ever known, but in recent literature it seems to be accepted as expressing a hope of dependability, determination, resoluteness --- certainly, whoever made such a difficult pamor would need all these qualities, and whoever had the money to pay for such work also needed these qualities in order to put together the wherewithal to foot the bill .

The extreme difficulty and complexity of production would seem to indicate that this motif is a fairly recent development, my guess is that it did not exist before European forge methods had already penetrated Javanese, or more likely Madurese, work practices, so perhaps it did not exist prior to the last quarter of the 19th century (ie, after 1875). Such a recent appearance would also explain the apparent lack of an established talismanic value.

Interestingly, this pamor appears not to have been known to Empu Djeno Harumbrojo.

The Singo Barong is not a Javanese form, nor is it Balinese. Frankly, I do not know what area the Singo Barong in this keris has been borrowed from:- Thai? Laos? Cambodia? China? it seems that the artist has taken various characteristics and combined them into a pleasing, but culturally inadequate whole. Because of this it is very difficult to attribute a value to the Singo Barong in this keris.

In Balinese iconography, and almost certainly in Pre-Islamic Javanese iconography the lion was associated with the K'satriya class, so a Singo Barong could be interpreted as indicative of warrior status, but when we apply the iconography of other places that draw on Chinese roots as shi, the iconography encapsulates protective values, as in "Guardian Lions". One thing is certain, if this keris is intended to be a Javanese keris, the Singo Barong on it is very wrong, and places it di luar pakem. But it is very pleasing sculpting.

If we look closely at the ron dha and sosoran of this keris, the appraisal of craftsmanship becomes quite difficult:- on the one hand the sculpting of the Singo Barong appears to be very good, but this artist seems not to have been able to cut a consistent ron dha of any recognisable form. Similarly, the proportions of the blumbangan do not fit comfortably into either Surakarta or Mataram form. Given, it is always difficult to read a blumbangan in a "picture keris", ie, a keris with a figure at the gandhik, and maybe this blumbangan would look better proportioned in hand than in a picture.

Taking into consideration the variation in the quality and consistency of the garap applied to this keris, I am inclined to think that we could be looking at a group effort. Certainly the forge work would not have been done by the same hands that did the bench work, but I feel that more than one pair of hands was involved in the bench work --- yes, I could be wrong about this, I was not there looking over the workers' shoulders, but my perception is that there is too much variation in proficiency for the bench work of this keris to be the work of one person.

The kinatah motif is unremarkable and fits comfortably into a Javanese context, however, the quality of the actual kinatah application is very, very ordinary, lower quality work, and not well done. I would guess probably done in Surabaya, certainly not top drawer Jawa Tengah work. This is a pity, because in spite of the obvious deficiencies in basic forms, this is really quite a beautiful piece of keris art, and it deserves much better kinatah work.

Although the overall form of the keris appears to be intended as Javanese , I am not able to comment on pawakan because there is no photograph of the complete keris, only close-ups of sections of the keris.

In summary, a very nice piece of modern keris art, it must be classified as Kemardikan, and is very far from any classical tradition.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2018, 03:31 AM   #4
Anthony G.
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 463
Default blade design

blade design
Attached Images
 
Anthony G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2018, 05:32 AM   #5
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,892
Default

Classifiable as Surakarta style, so, "Kemardikan Surakarta".
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2018, 08:34 AM   #6
Anthony G.
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 463
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
Actually Seerp, both stylistically and in terms of motif, everything in this keris is well established, nothing new here, except of course the entire concept, which is a beautiful piece of extremely clever modern keris art.

But this pamor motif is something that is very seldom encountered, in fact, in spite of my more than 60 years of contact with the keris, and very lengthy periods spent in Jawa and Bali, I have not yet handled a keris with this pamor motif. Whoever welded this pattern is a great master of the art.

The name of the motif is Tamarind Fibre ( Jarot Asem). I have not ever heard a talismanic value given to this motif by anybody I have ever known, but in recent literature it seems to be accepted as expressing a hope of dependability, determination, resoluteness --- certainly, whoever made such a difficult pamor would need all these qualities, and whoever had the money to pay for such work also needed these qualities in order to put together the wherewithal to foot the bill .

The extreme difficulty and complexity of production would seem to indicate that this motif is a fairly recent development, my guess is that it did not exist before European forge methods had already penetrated Javanese, or more likely Madurese, work practices, so perhaps it did not exist prior to the last quarter of the 19th century (ie, after 1875). Such a recent appearance would also explain the apparent lack of an established talismanic value.

Interestingly, this pamor appears not to have been known to Empu Djeno Harumbrojo.

The Singo Barong is not a Javanese form, nor is it Balinese. Frankly, I do not know what area the Singo Barong in this keris has been borrowed from:- Thai? Laos? Cambodia? China? it seems that the artist has taken various characteristics and combined them into a pleasing, but culturally inadequate whole. Because of this it is very difficult to attribute a value to the Singo Barong in this keris.

In Balinese iconography, and almost certainly in Pre-Islamic Javanese iconography the lion was associated with the K'satriya class, so a Singo Barong could be interpreted as indicative of warrior status, but when we apply the iconography of other places that draw on Chinese roots as shi, the iconography encapsulates protective values, as in "Guardian Lions". One thing is certain, if this keris is intended to be a Javanese keris, the Singo Barong on it is very wrong, and places it di luar pakem. But it is very pleasing sculpting.

If we look closely at the ron dha and sosoran of this keris, the appraisal of craftsmanship becomes quite difficult:- on the one hand the sculpting of the Singo Barong appears to be very good, but this artist seems not to have been able to cut a consistent ron dha of any recognisable form. Similarly, the proportions of the blumbangan do not fit comfortably into either Surakarta or Mataram form. Given, it is always difficult to read a blumbangan in a "picture keris", ie, a keris with a figure at the gandhik, and maybe this blumbangan would look better proportioned in hand than in a picture.

Taking into consideration the variation in the quality and consistency of the garap applied to this keris, I am inclined to think that we could be looking at a group effort. Certainly the forge work would not have been done by the same hands that did the bench work, but I feel that more than one pair of hands was involved in the bench work --- yes, I could be wrong about this, I was not there looking over the workers' shoulders, but my perception is that there is too much variation in proficiency for the bench work of this keris to be the work of one person.

The kinatah motif is unremarkable and fits comfortably into a Javanese context, however, the quality of the actual kinatah application is very, very ordinary, lower quality work, and not well done. I would guess probably done in Surabaya, certainly not top drawer Jawa Tengah work. This is a pity, because in spite of the obvious deficiencies in basic forms, this is really quite a beautiful piece of keris art, and it deserves much better kinatah work.

Although the overall form of the keris appears to be intended as Javanese , I am not able to comment on pawakan because there is no photograph of the complete keris, only close-ups of sections of the keris.

In summary, a very nice piece of modern keris art, it must be classified as Kemardikan, and is very far from any classical tradition.

Alan was very right in his keris description. Actually this keris was mine, commissioned to a Madura awarding winner empu to do it. The reason I chosen to make a modern art keris was only because of this rare pamor.

A new pamor (BRAID) that symbolise strength, determination and strong-willed which is my character. The gold application was poor if you asked me and I have asked them to re-do it. The lion motif has some flaw. The lion tail are not the same design and i was wondering if the craving is done by diff. person who are careless. The lion (non Indonesian type) is more towards kirin that symbolise the owner horoscope and it is guardian of the keris.

And indeed this keris was completed with many person's involvement and not just one smith. Alan got very sharp eye.

There is also slight dis-coloration of the gold which came off on same part due to warangan process. I am not sure should the maker put warangan first and then apply the gold instead (He applied the gold before warangan).

This process is unknown to me and I have to pay more to put more gold coating again. Naturally I am not happy having to fork out more cash.

Hope these info enable everyone especially newbie like myself, learns how they craft the keris and the process taken etc. By commissioned this keris and with the expensive experience, I learnt a great deal more on how it is done in Madura.

I liked this keris but satisfaction is only 70%.
Anthony G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2018, 10:07 AM   #7
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,892
Default

All education costs Anthony. It mostly costs money, and that is not so bad, because money can always be replaced, when the education costs honour or reputation, that is much worse than just costing a bit of money.

Its not only "sharp eyes" that help me Anthony, it is the fact that I have been given the benefit of the best education possible in keris:- Empu Suparman, Empu Pauzan Pusposukadgo, and more than 40 years of buying keris in Indonesia. This sort of experience takes a long time, and good teachers to acquire.

It is correct and normal to apply kinatah before doing the warangan.

Personally I would hesitate to refer to any current Madurese keris maker as an "empu". Pande keris perhaps, if he was doing the forge work as well as the cold work, but not empu. True empus are very few and far between.

In any case, even though you are not particularly happy with the result, you have managed to obtain a truly rare and beautiful pamor. Pure art. If you had not ordered it, you might have waited a lifetime to even see this pamor.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2018, 11:01 AM   #8
Anthony G.
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 463
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
It is correct and normal to apply kinatah before doing the warangan.

Personally I would hesitate to refer to any current Madurese keris maker as an "empu". Pande keris perhaps, if he was doing the forge work as well as the cold work, but not empu. True empus are very few and far between.

In any case, even though you are not particularly happy with the result, you have managed to obtain a truly rare and beautiful pamor. Pure art. If you had not ordered it, you might have waited a lifetime to even see this pamor.

Thanks for sharing about the process on warangan and application of gold process. The maker said that he can re-craved the lion after the application of gold again. I am not sure how he can do it since there is no more metal left for craving. Hopefully the result will be finalise and acceptable.

Your msg. finally let me realised what is true definition of empu. Thank you.
Anthony G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2018, 02:35 PM   #9
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,892
Default

Anthony, I do not know how you envisage the tail, but if it requires more metal, that metal can be added with a little bit of electric weld, and the weld line can be covered with the gold. If this is what the maker intends to do, it will decrease the integrity of the work.

If this keris belonged to me, I would accept the maker's interpretation of the tail, even though it does not agree with your own ideas of what it should be.

When we engage an artist to produce a work of art, we might give him an idea of what we want, but we must accept his judgement and interpretation of the subject. A client does not have the right to dictate artistic endeavour to an artist.

In the past I did a lot of custom knife work, I would accept an order and then I would produce the finished product in line with the way I interpreted the client's wishes, once the job was done, it would be the best I could do, but if the client did not like the work and he asked me to alter it in accordance with his own ideas of what he thought was right, I would return any payment he had made and most politely tell him to go take a running jump. In my book, clients accept the work of the artist, they do not tell the artist how to do the job.

Once we start to fiddle with detail in a finished work we run the very real risk that the quality of the existing work will be impaired.

Get them to do better quality kinatah, certainly, but I most sincerely advise against any alterations to the carving that has already been done --- your disappointment could very easily increase rather than decrease.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2018, 04:28 PM   #10
Anthony G.
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 463
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
Anthony, I do not know how you envisage the tail, but if it requires more metal, that metal can be added with a little bit of electric weld, and the weld line can be covered with the gold. If this is what the maker intends to do, it will decrease the integrity of the work.

If this keris belonged to me, I would accept the maker's interpretation of the tail, even though it does not agree with your own ideas of what it should be.

When we engage an artist to produce a work of art, we might give him an idea of what we want, but we must accept his judgement and interpretation of the subject. A client does not have the right to dictate artistic endeavour to an artist.

In the past I did a lot of custom knife work, I would accept an order and then I would produce the finished product in line with the way I interpreted the client's wishes, once the job was done, it would be the best I could do, but if the client did not like the work and he asked me to alter it in accordance with his own ideas of what he thought was right, I would return any payment he had made and most politely tell him to go take a running jump. In my book, clients accept the work of the artist, they do not tell the artist how to do the job.

Once we start to fiddle with detail in a finished work we run the very real risk that the quality of the existing work will be impaired.

Get them to do better quality kinatah, certainly, but I most sincerely advise against any alterations to the carving that has already been done --- your disappointment could very easily increase rather than decrease.

Hi Alan, I am also concern how the maker going to do adjustment on the leg/tail since the work is completed ( craving).I will do likewise as what you have advice and ask him not to do any adjustment work. Thank you for your sound advice as always.
Anthony G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2018, 10:53 PM   #11
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,892
Default

You are welcome, Anthony.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2018, 01:25 AM   #12
Anthony G.
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 463
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony G.
Hi Alan, I am also concern how the maker going to do adjustment on the leg/tail since the work is completed ( craving).I will do likewise as what you have advice and ask him not to do any adjustment work. Thank you for your sound advice as always.

The revised of kinatah (modern) work with improvement on the hind leg coating, and the completion of the keris.
Attached Images
  
Anthony G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2018, 01:39 AM   #13
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,219
Default

It may not be too traditional, but I LIKE it!!
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2018, 01:41 AM   #14
Anthony G.
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 463
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara
It may not be too traditional, but I LIKE it!!
Yes, that is why is called "Kemardikan Surakarta". I tried to use my poor little knowledge on keris and do a Kemardikan keris, try to stick to tradition as much as possible. Even the keris metal material is recycled from old keris steel instead. Enjoy my friend.
Anthony G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2018, 05:45 AM   #15
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,293
Smile

Lovely!
Anthony, could you show us a closer picture of the pendok please?
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2018, 07:08 AM   #16
Anthony G.
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 463
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Lovely!
Anthony, could you show us a closer picture of the pendok please?
Hi Rick

Here you go.
Attached Images
 
Anthony G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2018, 07:19 PM   #17
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,123
Default

Well that is pretty spectacular. A beautiful modern keris!
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2018, 09:14 PM   #18
drdavid
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 371
Default

Great example of what is possible, I am sure you are pleased with the outcome. The kinatah looks better. Can you tell us a little more about the pendok, what animal is depicted, did you chose that animal deliberately.
cheers
DrD
drdavid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2018, 04:09 PM   #19
Anthony G.
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 463
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drdavid
Great example of what is possible, I am sure you are pleased with the outcome. The kinatah looks better. Can you tell us a little more about the pendok, what animal is depicted, did you chose that animal deliberately.
cheers
DrD
Yes, I chosen the animals. Deer, Lion, Garuda fighting Dragon etc.
Anthony G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.