Help Identifing this piece

danhiman · 25th January 2011, 07:01 PM

I have owned this piece for 5 years now. It smells strong of copper. Its a little top heavy, but seems to aid in its swing. It looks as if it was used.

Atlantia · 25th January 2011, 07:38 PM

Hi Danhiman
Welcome to the forums.
Looks like you have a copper copy of a bronze age sword that has been cast with the hilt parts combined.
I'm not an expert, but to be it looks like a slight mix of 'Witham' (antenna style) and classic leaf shaped sytles.

Matchlock · 26th January 2011, 02:39 AM

Hi Danhiman,

And welcome to our forums.

This item doubtlessly shows the type of a Bronze Age sword , ca. 2200 to 1200 BC, with an unusually high content of copper in the brass alloy forming the bronze. Whether it's a copy of an original item or not I am not able to tell from the images.

The double scroll pommel is, as Gene has pointed out, of a rare form diverging from the antenna type.

Best,
Michael

danhiman · 26th January 2011, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Hi Danhiman,

And welcome to our forums.

This item doubtlessly shows the type of a Bronze Age sword , ca. 2200 to 1200 BC, with an unusually high content of copper in the brass alloy forming the bronze. Whether it's a copy of an original item or not I am not able to tell from the images.

The double scroll pommel is, as Gene has pointed out, of a rare form diverging from the antenna type.

Best,
Michael

What other pictures would help determine authenticity? Maybe different lighting?

Thanks for the help gentlemen.

fearn · 26th January 2011, 05:43 AM

Welcome!

I'm pretty sure it's more of an artwork than an exact copy of something like a Witham sword.

Remember, "use" can be from anyone (such as a kid playing with something) rather than a mark of a genuine piece.

Best,

F

danhiman · 27th January 2011, 03:25 AM

I use it to change channels on my tv when I'm in bed and I have also killed a few roof rats with it. Its got pretty good balance/handling.

Jim McDougall · 27th January 2011, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danhiman

I use it to change channels on my tv when I'm in bed and I have also killed a few roof rats with it. Its got pretty good balance/handling.

LOL!!! Now thats what I call a 'remote' !!!! You have substantially raised the benchmark for 'the guy code'

I agree with the guys in that this seems a nicely made impression of these Bronze age type swords, and as Gene notes, more artwork than keen reproduction. Very nice example though, and thanks for the chuckle, much appreciated.

All the best,
Jim

katana · 27th January 2011, 05:51 PM

Hi Danhiman,
welcome to the forum

interesting item, but I think not original to the time period. Often the handles were of wood/horn/bone and rivetted to the wide tang. Notice the two rivet 'impressions'....this suggests to me that this is from a mould ...created by an 'impressed' rivetted handled sword. As it would be extremely unlikely the wood/bone handle would survive from so long ago,it is also possible that yours is a 'copy' of a 'copy'.

Still it is a very nice piece

Regards David

celtan · 27th January 2011, 11:41 PM

You can also use it to scratch your toes without getting up from the couch, and to tap your wifey's derriere, to signal her you require further fermented spirits from the fridge.

Live and let die...

: )

Quote:

Originally Posted by danhiman

I use it to change channels on my tv when I'm in bed and I have also killed a few roof rats with it. Its got pretty good balance/handling.

Atlantia · 28th January 2011, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danhiman

What other pictures would help determine authenticity? Maybe different lighting?

Thanks for the help gentlemen.

It's not an original.
There is no question.

As my original post says. It is fully or mostly copper, and was cast with the hilt parts combined.
Also, it has no patina/oxidisation and the 'antenna' don't conform to known styles.
If you want to see good examples of reproductions covering the main types, then have a look here.

Also, show the rats some mercy for christs sake. They are just trying to earn a living too

fernando · 28th January 2011, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celtan

...and to tap your wifey's derriere, to signal her you require further fermented spirits from the fridge...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

... Also, show the rats some mercy for christs sake. They are just trying to earn a living too ...

Wow, the humour levels are top high; life is running fine, hey guys ?

celtan · 28th January 2011, 10:36 PM

Nando, por favor, contribute with a witty remark strong on levity.

: )

IIRC, the swords from Luristan were made from copper alloys. An interesting addendum is that they were supossedly better than the iron swords, their downfall being that they were much more expensive and slow to make. Manoucher should be able to expound on that.

Reminds me of the initial superiority of the compound bow over the flintlock. Economics also won the day then, and likewise, the flintlock was developed to the point of superiority over bow.

BR

M

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Wow, the humour levels are top high; life is running fine, hey guys ?

fearn · 28th January 2011, 11:03 PM

I'm still trying to figure out either the Linear B or hieroglyphs for "Rat Killing Sword." That's what you should engrave in this piece. After all, you've blooded it, so you have to name it properly. Having a story to go with the name would be all to the good, I think.

Best,

F

celtan · 28th January 2011, 11:33 PM

How about "Die rathskeller"?

: )

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

I'm still trying to figure out either the Linear B or hieroglyphs for "Rat Killing Sword." That's what you should engrave in this piece. After all, you've blooded it, so you have to name it properly. Having a story to go with the name would be all to the good, I think.

Best,

F

fearn · 29th January 2011, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celtan

How about "Die rathskeller"?

: )

I thought it was "Der Rathskeller..." At least in Wisconsin.

danhiman · 29th January 2011, 04:48 AM

I will have to look into the in graving. LOL

Atlantia · 29th January 2011, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celtan

IIRC, the swords from Luristan were made from copper alloys.

Antiquities researchers/archeologists etc, now tend to refer to all alloys of copper including bronze as 'copper alloy'. So technically, all 'Bronze' swords are made from 'copper alloys'. Including Luristani, European etc.

celtan · 29th January 2011, 11:30 PM

I think of swords as feminine objects, thus Die is more appropriate, I believe..

Here I'm word playing, between Rat's Killer and Rathskeller (restaurant)...

In my college days, I dubbed "The Rats Killer" a restaurant located within the OSU campus, officially named Der Rathskeller. This, on account of it's unpleasantly tasting hamburgers, thus implying an unconventional source for the meat patties.

Perhaps they could use this sword there...

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

I thought it was "Der Rathskeller..." At least in Wisconsin.

danhiman · 1st February 2011, 12:26 AM

Maybe they can use my services.

clockwork · 3rd February 2011, 02:59 AM

Here you go

.

danhiman · 15th February 2011, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clockwork

Here you go

.

I like that.

25th January 2011, 07:01 PM	#1
danhiman Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: San Jose, Ca Posts: 6	Help Identifing this piece I have owned this piece for 5 years now. It smells strong of copper. Its a little top heavy, but seems to aid in its swing. It looks as if it was used. Attached Images

3rd February 2011, 02:59 AM	#20
clockwork Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 93	Here you go . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 3rd February 2011 at 11:02 PM.

25th January 2011, 07:38 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Danhiman Welcome to the forums. Looks like you have a copper copy of a bronze age sword that has been cast with the hilt parts combined. I'm not an expert, but to be it looks like a slight mix of 'Witham' (antenna style) and classic leaf shaped sytles.

26th January 2011, 02:39 AM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Danhiman, And welcome to our forums. This item doubtlessly shows the type of a Bronze Age sword , ca. 2200 to 1200 BC, with an unusually high content of copper in the brass alloy forming the bronze. Whether it's a copy of an original item or not I am not able to tell from the images. The double scroll pommel is, as Gene has pointed out, of a rare form diverging from the antenna type. Best, Michael

26th January 2011, 05:43 AM	#5
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Welcome! I'm pretty sure it's more of an artwork than an exact copy of something like a Witham sword. Remember, "use" can be from anyone (such as a kid playing with something) rather than a mark of a genuine piece. Best, F

27th January 2011, 03:25 AM	#6
danhiman Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: San Jose, Ca Posts: 6	I use it to change channels on my tv when I'm in bed and I have also killed a few roof rats with it. Its got pretty good balance/handling.

27th January 2011, 05:51 PM	#8
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Danhiman, welcome to the forum interesting item, but I think not original to the time period. Often the handles were of wood/horn/bone and rivetted to the wide tang. Notice the two rivet 'impressions'....this suggests to me that this is from a mould ...created by an 'impressed' rivetted handled sword. As it would be extremely unlikely the wood/bone handle would survive from so long ago,it is also possible that yours is a 'copy' of a 'copy'. Still it is a very nice piece Regards David

28th January 2011, 11:03 PM	#13
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	I'm still trying to figure out either the Linear B or hieroglyphs for "Rat Killing Sword." That's what you should engrave in this piece. After all, you've blooded it, so you have to name it properly. Having a story to go with the name would be all to the good, I think. Best, F

29th January 2011, 04:48 AM	#16
danhiman Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: San Jose, Ca Posts: 6	I will have to look into the in graving. LOL

1st February 2011, 12:26 AM	#19
danhiman Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: San Jose, Ca Posts: 6	Maybe they can use my services.