Double ratan windings on mandauhandle!

Maurice · 23rd July 2009, 12:57 PM

Hi,

Does anyone have some ideas about these kind of double winded ratan handles?

My own opinion (just a hunch though) is that these double winded handles were probably a fashion at that time, in that specific area (east Borneo).

I would like to discuss this here and hear other opinions or even see photo's of similar handlewrappings.

Regards,
Maurice

trenchwarfare · 23rd July 2009, 06:24 PM

Hello Maurice. This is way out of my area, but I'll give it a stab. As the patina, and binding type look different from each other, I'd say that this is a later repair, or upgrade? Just guessing. My areas of "expertise", are more "civilized" weapons.

Maurice · 23rd July 2009, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trenchwarfare

Hello Maurice. This is way out of my area, but I'll give it a stab. As the patina, and binding type look different from each other, I'd say that this is a later repair, or upgrade? Just guessing. My areas of "expertise", are more "civilized" weapons.

A repair is what I also considered, but at the other hand: Would it not be more practical to just remove the resin ring and old (damaged) ratan, and than renew those?

asomotif · 24th July 2009, 11:04 PM

Hi Maurice,

My guess is also decoration. not repair

Same as you have wrapping of metal combined with rattan.

Where is this hilt from ? Own colection ?
I know that I have seen this type of wrapping before, but I could not think of any book in my collection to find such a picture

It would be nice if anybody here had similar handles ?

Best regards,
Willem

Maurice · 25th July 2009, 07:30 AM

Hi Willem,

Yes I bought it, but it is at the customs for a week already right know!

So I have to be a bit patient yet.

A similar type of wrapping you can find in "Quer durch Borneo" from Nieuwenhuis.

Maurice

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Hi Maurice,

My guess is also decoration. not repair

Same as you have wrapping of metal combined with rattan.

Where is this hilt from ? Own colection ?
I know that I have seen this type of wrapping before, but I could not think of any book in my collection to find such a picture

It would be nice if anybody here had similar handles ?

Best regards,
Willem

asomotif · 26th July 2009, 02:11 AM

Yes, Nieuwenhuis. I did not check it and was confussing it with the other hilt with the bead winding in Quer durch Borneo.

Wow

you actually bought this quality handle.
It must be from the same age as Nieuwenhuis'example. Great buy !!!

As for the discussion , decoration or repair.
Nieuwenhuis' books show almost nothing but complete examples and sometimes object were even specially made for him.
So considering that a similar exemaple is pictured in Quer durch Borneo , I would surely say it is decoration.

Good luck with the customs.
Do they know it is antler (and not some ivory)

Best regards,
Willem

Maurice · 26th July 2009, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Wow

you actually bought this quality handle.
It must be from the same age as Nieuwenhuis'example. Great buy !!!

Hi Willem, It is not just the handle. It is a complete mandau. I found it at EBAY!
The seller at first didn't know it was a Borneo sword. He put it under the header: Antique Pacific Islander Carved Sword, Java? Sumatra?
Though there were still 11 bidders, I got it for quite a cheap price.

Indeed Nieuwenhuis had some items especially made for him, so indeed unlikely a restore. Good thinking Willem!

Regards,
Maurice

t_c · 26th July 2009, 08:10 PM

Hi Maurice,
It looks like the "bulge" from the weaving rests under the fingers and not the palm of the hand. The Japanese would place menuki (ornaments woven into the handle wrap) on the same side of the handle for a better grip. Maybe this is what the double wrapping is for - to help the wielder get a better purchase on the handle. You'll have to tell us how it feels in the hand when you get it. If nothing else, the weaving does look really nice.

tom

Maurice · 27th July 2009, 09:27 AM

Thanks Tom for your input!

I got an email from an ex-member of the forum: Dajak.
He pointed to me the following link: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=mandau
(thanks Ben)

This one also has this double winding.
So it looks to me that it probably is a kind of decoration, of a certain area (Kutai, east Borneo)!

asomotif · 27th July 2009, 01:23 PM

Hi Maurice,

That is a very nice example. (I remember the thread, but not the double winding)
Bem's example is 2 coloured interwoven on the front. vey nice one. (probably left his collection already

)

Quote:

It looks like the "bulge" from the weaving rests under the fingers and not the palm of the hand.

Tom, I don't have a katana at hand, but as far as I know the menuki's are in the hand palm. (Right hand under the tsuba)
This knot on the mandau is placed so that it is facing outward when worn, so my opinion is decorative. possible better grip being at best a side effect.

Looking forward to mor pictures of blade scabbard etc.

Maurice · 27th July 2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Looking forward to mor pictures of blade scabbard etc.

Here some pics of the complete sword and scabbard!

Maurice · 27th July 2009, 06:24 PM

It is difficult to make pictures of the intricate carvings on the handle. But I did the best I can.
Unfortunately the little nose on the front is broken off. I hoped for a bit that it was the intention of the carver to make him "without nose". But anyway I am glad it slipped into my collection (with or without the "nose").

Sajen · 27th July 2009, 06:44 PM

I like the fine carvings at the handle.

sajen

danny1976 · 27th July 2009, 08:10 PM

Nice one Maurice !!!!!!

Verry nice patin on the scabbard also...

asomotif · 28th July 2009, 12:02 AM

WOW

and a little bit AUWwww

Reminds me to put :"Antique Pacific Islander Carved Sword, Java? Sumatra?"
in my ebay "search list".

really nice mandau. That is what you want in your collection.
Lovely patina, sturdy blade, amazing hilt carving.

Blade makes me think of this one I have

23rd July 2009, 12:57 PM	#1
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,349	Double ratan windings on mandauhandle! Hi, Does anyone have some ideas about these kind of double winded ratan handles? My own opinion (just a hunch though) is that these double winded handles were probably a fashion at that time, in that specific area (east Borneo). I would like to discuss this here and hear other opinions or even see photo's of similar handlewrappings. Regards, Maurice Attached Images

27th July 2009, 06:24 PM	#12
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,349	It is difficult to make pictures of the intricate carvings on the handle. But I did the best I can. Unfortunately the little nose on the front is broken off. I hoped for a bit that it was the intention of the carver to make him "without nose". But anyway I am glad it slipped into my collection (with or without the "nose"). Attached Images

28th July 2009, 12:02 AM	#15
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	WOW and a little bit AUWwww Reminds me to put :"Antique Pacific Islander Carved Sword, Java? Sumatra?" in my ebay "search list". really nice mandau. That is what you want in your collection. Lovely patina, sturdy blade, amazing hilt carving. Blade makes me think of this one I have Attached Images Last edited by asomotif; 28th July 2009 at 12:16 AM.

23rd July 2009, 06:24 PM	#2
trenchwarfare Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 385	Hello Maurice. This is way out of my area, but I'll give it a stab. As the patina, and binding type look different from each other, I'd say that this is a later repair, or upgrade? Just guessing. My areas of "expertise", are more "civilized" weapons.

24th July 2009, 11:04 PM	#4
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Hi Maurice, My guess is also decoration. not repair Same as you have wrapping of metal combined with rattan. Where is this hilt from ? Own colection ? I know that I have seen this type of wrapping before, but I could not think of any book in my collection to find such a picture It would be nice if anybody here had similar handles ? Best regards, Willem

26th July 2009, 02:11 AM	#6
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Yes, Nieuwenhuis. I did not check it and was confussing it with the other hilt with the bead winding in Quer durch Borneo. Wow you actually bought this quality handle. It must be from the same age as Nieuwenhuis'example. Great buy !!! As for the discussion , decoration or repair. Nieuwenhuis' books show almost nothing but complete examples and sometimes object were even specially made for him. So considering that a similar exemaple is pictured in Quer durch Borneo , I would surely say it is decoration. Good luck with the customs. Do they know it is antler (and not some ivory) Best regards, Willem

26th July 2009, 08:10 PM	#8
t_c Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ca, usa Posts: 92	Hi Maurice, It looks like the "bulge" from the weaving rests under the fingers and not the palm of the hand. The Japanese would place menuki (ornaments woven into the handle wrap) on the same side of the handle for a better grip. Maybe this is what the double wrapping is for - to help the wielder get a better purchase on the handle. You'll have to tell us how it feels in the hand when you get it. If nothing else, the weaving does look really nice. tom

27th July 2009, 09:27 AM	#9
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,349	Thanks Tom for your input! I got an email from an ex-member of the forum: Dajak. He pointed to me the following link: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=mandau (thanks Ben) This one also has this double winding. So it looks to me that it probably is a kind of decoration, of a certain area (Kutai, east Borneo)!

27th July 2009, 06:44 PM	#13
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	I like the fine carvings at the handle. sajen

27th July 2009, 08:10 PM	#14
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	Nice one Maurice !!!!!! Verry nice patin on the scabbard also...