Ukiran material id?

Patje1970 · 19th August 2019, 12:02 PM

Does anyone recognize the material from this ukiran, based on this photo's?

regards Pat

Sajen · 19th August 2019, 12:51 PM

The hilt look very recent to my eyes. Recent hilts from Bali are often carved from moose horn. Difficult to be certain by the look to pictures on a screen.

Regards,
Detlef

Jean · 19th August 2019, 12:51 PM

Not easy, it seems to have some age, the materials is strong/ solid, not from bone, does not seem from ivory (black spots), so my best guess is deer antler.
Regards
PS: Moose antler is a strong possibility as advised by Detlef.

Patje1970 · 19th August 2019, 12:52 PM

See more photo's below

Patje1970 · 19th August 2019, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Not easy, it seems to have some age, the materials is strong/ solid, not from bone, does not seem from ivory (black spots), so my best guess is deer antler.
Regards

Mayby Spermwhale ?

Jean · 19th August 2019, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patje1970

Mayby Spermwhale ?

The patina & colour do not look like spermwhale tooth from the pics.

Patje1970 · 19th August 2019, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

The patina & colour do not look like spermwhale tooth from the pics.

thanks for the info

Jean · 19th August 2019, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patje1970

thanks for the info

Other opinions are welcome of course. I attach for reference a semi old Dayak carving made from local deer antler (not moose) with a similar patina & colour (but your piece looks a bit darker from the pics).
Regards

Patje1970 · 19th August 2019, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Other opinions are welcome of course. I attach for reference a semi old Dayak carving made from local deer antler (not moose) with a similar patina & colour (but your piece looks a bit darker from the pics).
Regards

Nice Carving Jean, thanks. Indeed my piece is a bit darker

David · 19th August 2019, 05:52 PM

Well, first off, while i believe this hilt is a contemporary, non-traditional form, i personally find it very appealing.

I don't think it is ivory (certainly not elephant or whale) and it doesn't look anything like the moose antler that many modern Bali carvings are done with. It could be some other type of antler or dense bone.
What does it feel like? is it heavy or light? Does it feel cool to the touch?

Patje1970 · 19th August 2019, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Well, first off, while i believe this hilt is a contemporary, non-traditional form, i personally find it very appealing.

I don't think it is ivory (certainly not elephant or whale) and it doesn't look anything like the moose antler that many modern Bali carvings are done with. It could be some other type of antler or dense bone.
What does it feel like? is it heavy or light? Does it feel cool to the touch?

Hi David,

It feels cool when touching it, In hand it feels a little heavy, even the weight is only approx 128-130 gram. Don't know if it helps, there is a very vague what "saulty" like smell on it.

regards Pat

Jean · 19th August 2019, 07:27 PM

Personally I don't think that this hilt is very recent (say less than 10-15 years) or the ageing process was very professionally made! (blackened cavities, etc.). Can you remove the selut? Is there a sign that there is added materials under the selut or inside the pesi hole (look for a transition line with a flashlight), or it is one piece with the hilt? Very nice carving anyway!
Regards

Patje1970 · 19th August 2019, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Personally I don't think that this hilt is very recent (say less than 10-15 years) or the ageing process was very professionally made! (blackened cavities, etc.). Can you remove the selut? Is there a sign that there is added materials under the selut or inside the pesi hole (look for a transition line with a flashlight), or it is one piece with the hilt? Very nice carving anyway!
Regards

Hi Jean, I cannot remove the selut. Only some pictures from the inside. So far I see it. Seems dense bone ore some kind of antler.

I agree with you that is not very recent, I loved the carving, that's why I bought this one.

regards Pat

Battara · 20th August 2019, 02:42 AM

Could this have been artificially aged?

Rick · 20th August 2019, 03:48 AM

I think it's entirely possible Jose.
Doesn't look like natural aging to me at all.
If there were evidence of tiny pits I'd think it was a casting that was hand finished.

Patje1970 · 20th August 2019, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I think it's entirely possible Jose.
Doesn't look like natural aging to me at all.
If there were evidence of tiny pits I'd think it was a casting that was hand finished.

I don't think it's a casting. material seems more like antler or bone. The selut attachted is from metal. I don't see evidence of tiny pits. If it is aged it was very professionally made (blackened cavities, etc.)

A. G. Maisey · 20th August 2019, 02:45 PM

Patje, I think I'd be inclined to do a hot needle test with this hilt.

Rick · 20th August 2019, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patje1970

I don't think it's a casting. material seems more like antler or bone. The selut attachted is from metal. I don't see evidence of tiny pits. If it is aged it was very professionally made (blackened cavities, etc.)

Another clue you gave was the impression of heavyness and being cool to the touch. Then there is the matter of all the 'gunk' in the crevices.
When I was first collecting kerisses I received a very intricate Madura hilt; it too felt heavy and cool to the touch also with lots of gunk in the crevices. I figured I would clean it up and in doing so discovered it was a casting made from some kind of heavy non natural material and aged quite professionally.

I'll be interested in what you discover when you do a bit of testing.

19th August 2019, 12:02 PM	#1
Patje1970 Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 51	Ukiran material id? Does anyone recognize the material from this ukiran, based on this photo's? regards Pat Attached Images Last edited by Patje1970; 19th August 2019 at 12:05 PM. Reason: added more photo's

19th August 2019, 12:52 PM	#4
Patje1970 Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 51	More detailed pictures See more photo's below Attached Images

19th August 2019, 12:51 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	The hilt look very recent to my eyes. Recent hilts from Bali are often carved from moose horn. Difficult to be certain by the look to pictures on a screen. Regards, Detlef

19th August 2019, 12:51 PM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Not easy, it seems to have some age, the materials is strong/ solid, not from bone, does not seem from ivory (black spots), so my best guess is deer antler. Regards PS: Moose antler is a strong possibility as advised by Detlef.

19th August 2019, 05:52 PM	#10
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,125	Well, first off, while i believe this hilt is a contemporary, non-traditional form, i personally find it very appealing. I don't think it is ivory (certainly not elephant or whale) and it doesn't look anything like the moose antler that many modern Bali carvings are done with. It could be some other type of antler or dense bone. What does it feel like? is it heavy or light? Does it feel cool to the touch?

19th August 2019, 07:27 PM	#12
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Personally I don't think that this hilt is very recent (say less than 10-15 years) or the ageing process was very professionally made! (blackened cavities, etc.). Can you remove the selut? Is there a sign that there is added materials under the selut or inside the pesi hole (look for a transition line with a flashlight), or it is one piece with the hilt? Very nice carving anyway! Regards

20th August 2019, 02:42 AM	#14
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,225	Could this have been artificially aged?

20th August 2019, 03:48 AM	#15
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	I think it's entirely possible Jose. Doesn't look like natural aging to me at all. If there were evidence of tiny pits I'd think it was a casting that was hand finished.

20th August 2019, 02:45 PM	#17
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Patje, I think I'd be inclined to do a hot needle test with this hilt.