Early XX century (?) Kaskara with decoration

Mauro · 3rd November 2009, 01:17 AM

I just bought a kaskara that I suppose is Early XX century. I read the interesting forum on kaskaras and it is c.111 cm long, not the size of the XIX kaskara described by Pallm. It has some arabic phrases that were traslated from a friend of mine. On one side:
My success only thanks to God
There is no strength except by God Almighty.
Lord, opener of doors, the door open to us
best for our work
The opposite side:
Victory thanks to God
The triumph soon.
triumph near
God declares our victory

It has a classic stamp, two half moon, that I also have in another sword that I bought personally in Kassala in 1986 from the owner that was still carrying it. At the base of the blade it is decorated with a rose that I suppose it could be some kind of sign of recognition of the owner. Is there any suggestion ??
Mauro

Mauro · 3rd November 2009, 01:23 AM

Sorry, I am new and I forgot to add the photos of the kaskara
all the best
Mauro

ariel · 3rd November 2009, 02:09 AM

I have an uneasy feeling about the etchings: don't they look very fresh? The handle is also quite pristine, especially the wire wrapping: impeccably even and tight.

katana · 3rd November 2009, 02:10 AM

Hi Mauro,
welcome to the forum, a very nice kaskara ......and excellent photographs

.

It is likely the hilt has been replaced/repaired and the blade is older. I really like it.

Regards David

Atlantia · 3rd November 2009, 02:36 AM

Hi Mauro.

Nice sword, I love the crossguard!!

Regards
Gene

colin henshaw · 3rd November 2009, 08:36 AM

Very nice kaskara. Maybe the blade is newer than the hilt - hard to say. The hilt and crossguard look like they have been cleaned bright.

Regards.

Mauro · 3rd November 2009, 11:59 PM

Hi everybody, a kaskara with a similar hilt and blade (and also etched with similar characters ) was sold during Auction 57 of the Hermann Historica (Lot 3290). Try http://www.hermann-historica.de/gb/i..._auktionen.htm
They attributed the sword to the late XIX century. Unfortunately they disabled the right taste and it is not possible to download the image and send it to somebody that could traslate the writings. I did not mentioned the scabbard that is dedicated to the blade and is original.
does anybody has some more information ? all the best Mauro

Jim McDougall · 4th November 2009, 07:00 AM

Hi Mauro,
Thank you for sharing this kaskara example, and for adding the link to the similar example from the earlier auction. It is my impression that this is indeed a quite modern interpretation incorporating various traditional kaskara characteristics of earlier times. As you have noted, these swords remain a traditional accessory which are worn on special occasions, and certainly considered a status symbol among prominant tribal figures.

The style of the hilt is interpretive, and is intended to represent the hilts of Darfur of 19th century, the interesting zigzag decoration loosely recalling the harlequin diamond pattern often seen on these hilts, as well as the discoid pommel also with similar geometric motif. The gold gilt ? or coloring and wire wrap seem unusual.....the crossguard is of what is considered 'Hausa' type with distinctly knob type quillon terminals. These are also contrary to the flared quillons of Darfur examples, and less so, even straight bar crossguards seen on regular Anglo-Egyptian Sudan types.

The blade, also representing earlier European forms shows the acid discoloring from the etched panels and floral motif, popular on earlier Darfur blades and the thuluth etchings on the simpler kaskaras of Mahdist period.
The paired moons, another Hausa distinction on kaskaras (Briggs) are termed 'dukari' and evolved probably talismanically from the blades from Europe in earlier times.

Im not aware of any particular significance of the rose in the Sudan or Darfur as far as being distinctive to a particular owner, but more a decorative floral to enhance the panels with the devotional phrases.

Nicely done example of these very traditional weapons that remain important to tribal figures in these regions. Even the very old blades are, as in many cultures, remounted and refurbished as they change hands as heirlooms.
Scabbards were apparantly often red or brown goatskin, and the black paintover on this is very curious, perhaps whoever acquired it sought to dramatize the gold metal on the hilt.

Best regards,
Jim

Mauro · 5th November 2009, 01:42 AM

Hi Jim, many thanks for the interesting informations. Please let me know if with "quite modern interpretation" you mean that this sword was made in the mid XX century or you think it is a fake. As regard to the guard and the wrapping at the base of the hilt surely you noted that the sword in Hermann Historica are similar. You think they belong to the same period ? The sword from the Hermann below the langet has still some iron oxides because in a kaskara, as well in many other swords, is the worse place to clean.
thanks again
Mauro

Jim McDougall · 5th November 2009, 06:33 AM

Hi Mauro,
Also, welcome to the forum, and its good to have you here. I would like to see the example you bought in Kasalla, which was a key production location for kaskaras in the 19th century.

I very much dislike the very blunt assessments using the term 'fake' although certainly there are times when such terms are hard to avoid. While certainly these areas experience thier share of foreign visitors, and do produce 'modern interpretations' to satisfy commercial needs (tourist items), I always try to consider that modern versions may still serve as traditional accoutrements.
It does not seem to me that 'tourist' wares would carry these authentic Islamic inscriptions, from my understanding at least.

The very irregularly applied zig zag decoration simply recalls the much more carefully worked silver repousse of the true early examples, and as noted, these are modern, probably within the last 30 years.

On the site here, Lee Jones has written an excellent article on the takoubas and kaskaras of North Africa, and will offer good insight into these very interesting weapons.

All the best,
Jim

Mauro · 5th November 2009, 03:14 PM

Hi shall try to get some photos of the Kassala kaskara but it is similar to many swords. I.e. on ebay actually there is one that seems its copy .However, the sword I bought in the '80thies was made before. The man that sold it to me was a merchant selling other thinks. I am not able to say how much older but, as I said, it was already used (10 ? 20 ? 30 ? years). You know that many swords are passed from one generation to another. Moreover, in Kassala area there were already people carrying guns and obviously swords had lost their appeal !! The kaskara we are discussiong here, as well as its scabbard, is also worn. Therefore I think it is difficult that it has only 30 years old. I have many gurade from the late XIX and the begining of the XX with their scabbards (Ethiopian swords re one of my passions !) and if I compare their conditions they are better preserved. Is it not possible that this kaskara is Early XX century and was made when the old traditions (Early 1800) were disappearing but still there was somebody that was able to reproduce the original style ?? In 1986 in Kassaka there were no swordmakers and I also did not see them in khartoum although I cannot exclude that I did not find their shop in the capital area! I shall read the Lee Jones's article. Please, when you have time, give me some reference on these swords. You mention Briggs but I don't know this reference. Thanks again
Mauro

kisak · 5th November 2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauro

Unfortunately they disabled the right taste and it is not possible to download the image and send it to somebody that could traslate the writings.

http://www.hermann-historica.de/aukt..._max/77231.jpg

They've coded it so that the web browser thinks the image is actually a link, and then disabled clicking on it entierly. With the Firefox browser you can go into Options -> Content -> Advanced Options for JavsScript and uncheck "Replace of Disable Context Menus" to make sure you always have the right-click menu. Then right-click the image and select "Open Link in New Tab" or "Open link in New Window".

Internet Explorer seems to lack this functionality, instead forcing you to disable Javascript entirely. Under Tools, select Internet Options, then the Security tab. Make sure Internet is the zone selected, and then click on Custom Level. Scroll down to Scripting, and under that Active Scripting (it's down towards the bottom for me). Disable that, click OK to close that menu, then Ok again to close the Internet Options, and finally restart Internet Explorer. You should now be able to Click on the images at Hermann Historica and get the large pictures from that.

Remember that this shuts down all JavaScript for all webpages though, so I would recommend enabling it again once you've saved the pictures you wanted.

Mauro · 6th November 2009, 12:54 AM

I followed your suggestions and I was able to download the photos !! Many thanks. Mauro

Quote:

Originally Posted by kisak

http://www.hermann-historica.de/aukt..._max/77231.jpg

They've coded it so that the web browser thinks the image is actually a link, and then disabled clicking on it entierly. With the Firefox browser you can go into Options -> Content -> Advanced Options for JavsScript and uncheck "Replace of Disable Context Menus" to make sure you always have the right-click menu. Then right-click the image and select "Open Link in New Tab" or "Open link in New Window".

Internet Explorer seems to lack this functionality, instead forcing you to disable Javascript entirely. Under Tools, select Internet Options, then the Security tab. Make sure Internet is the zone selected, and then click on Custom Level. Scroll down to Scripting, and under that Active Scripting (it's down towards the bottom for me). Disable that, click OK to close that menu, then Ok again to close the Internet Options, and finally restart Internet Explorer. You should now be able to Click on the images at Hermann Historica and get the large pictures from that.

Remember that this shuts down all JavaScript for all webpages though, so I would recommend enabling it again once you've saved the pictures you wanted.

Jim McDougall · 6th November 2009, 05:26 AM

Mauro, I have sent you a PM.
All best regards,
Jim

Jim McDougall · 6th November 2009, 08:23 PM

Hi Mauro,
Apparantly I overlooked the fact that the example you posted from Hermann Historica is from an auction that is pending.
I know you are new here, but I must recommend that before reading Lee's article, it is important that you read the rules thread at the very top of the page.

Here it states that NO LIVE AUCTIONS may be posted or discussed. What this means is that any auction that has not completed cannot be discussed or linked, nor any of the items in it.

After the auction has ended, it is OK.

Thank you again for posting, and I hope you note that I sent a PM (private message)...these are found in the upper right hand corner of the screen when you sign in to the discussion forums.

Thanks a lot,
Jim

3rd November 2009, 01:17 AM	#1
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	Early XX century (?) Kaskara with decoration I just bought a kaskara that I suppose is Early XX century. I read the interesting forum on kaskaras and it is c.111 cm long, not the size of the XIX kaskara described by Pallm. It has some arabic phrases that were traslated from a friend of mine. On one side: My success only thanks to God There is no strength except by God Almighty. Lord, opener of doors, the door open to us best for our work The opposite side: Victory thanks to God The triumph soon. triumph near God declares our victory It has a classic stamp, two half moon, that I also have in another sword that I bought personally in Kassala in 1986 from the owner that was still carrying it. At the base of the blade it is decorated with a rose that I suppose it could be some kind of sign of recognition of the owner. Is there any suggestion ?? Mauro

3rd November 2009, 01:23 AM	#2
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	photos !! Sorry, I am new and I forgot to add the photos of the kaskara all the best Mauro Attached Images

3rd November 2009, 02:10 AM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Mauro, welcome to the forum, a very nice kaskara ......and excellent photographs . It is likely the hilt has been replaced/repaired and the blade is older. I really like it. Regards David Last edited by katana; 3rd November 2009 at 05:05 PM.

5th November 2009, 03:14 PM	#11
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	Hi shall try to get some photos of the Kassala kaskara but it is similar to many swords. I.e. on ebay actually there is one that seems its copy .However, the sword I bought in the '80thies was made before. The man that sold it to me was a merchant selling other thinks. I am not able to say how much older but, as I said, it was already used (10 ? 20 ? 30 ? years). You know that many swords are passed from one generation to another. Moreover, in Kassala area there were already people carrying guns and obviously swords had lost their appeal !! The kaskara we are discussiong here, as well as its scabbard, is also worn. Therefore I think it is difficult that it has only 30 years old. I have many gurade from the late XIX and the begining of the XX with their scabbards (Ethiopian swords re one of my passions !) and if I compare their conditions they are better preserved. Is it not possible that this kaskara is Early XX century and was made when the old traditions (Early 1800) were disappearing but still there was somebody that was able to reproduce the original style ?? In 1986 in Kassaka there were no swordmakers and I also did not see them in khartoum although I cannot exclude that I did not find their shop in the capital area! I shall read the Lee Jones's article. Please, when you have time, give me some reference on these swords. You mention Briggs but I don't know this reference. Thanks again Mauro Last edited by Rick; 5th November 2009 at 04:24 PM. Reason: removed active auction number; this is not allowed .

3rd November 2009, 02:09 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I have an uneasy feeling about the etchings: don't they look very fresh? The handle is also quite pristine, especially the wire wrapping: impeccably even and tight.

3rd November 2009, 02:36 AM	#5
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Mauro. Nice sword, I love the crossguard!! Regards Gene

3rd November 2009, 08:36 AM	#6
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Very nice kaskara. Maybe the blade is newer than the hilt - hard to say. The hilt and crossguard look like they have been cleaned bright. Regards.

3rd November 2009, 11:59 PM	#7
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	Hi everybody, a kaskara with a similar hilt and blade (and also etched with similar characters ) was sold during Auction 57 of the Hermann Historica (Lot 3290). Try http://www.hermann-historica.de/gb/i..._auktionen.htm They attributed the sword to the late XIX century. Unfortunately they disabled the right taste and it is not possible to download the image and send it to somebody that could traslate the writings. I did not mentioned the scabbard that is dedicated to the blade and is original. does anybody has some more information ? all the best Mauro

4th November 2009, 07:00 AM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Hi Mauro, Thank you for sharing this kaskara example, and for adding the link to the similar example from the earlier auction. It is my impression that this is indeed a quite modern interpretation incorporating various traditional kaskara characteristics of earlier times. As you have noted, these swords remain a traditional accessory which are worn on special occasions, and certainly considered a status symbol among prominant tribal figures. The style of the hilt is interpretive, and is intended to represent the hilts of Darfur of 19th century, the interesting zigzag decoration loosely recalling the harlequin diamond pattern often seen on these hilts, as well as the discoid pommel also with similar geometric motif. The gold gilt ? or coloring and wire wrap seem unusual.....the crossguard is of what is considered 'Hausa' type with distinctly knob type quillon terminals. These are also contrary to the flared quillons of Darfur examples, and less so, even straight bar crossguards seen on regular Anglo-Egyptian Sudan types. The blade, also representing earlier European forms shows the acid discoloring from the etched panels and floral motif, popular on earlier Darfur blades and the thuluth etchings on the simpler kaskaras of Mahdist period. The paired moons, another Hausa distinction on kaskaras (Briggs) are termed 'dukari' and evolved probably talismanically from the blades from Europe in earlier times. Im not aware of any particular significance of the rose in the Sudan or Darfur as far as being distinctive to a particular owner, but more a decorative floral to enhance the panels with the devotional phrases. Nicely done example of these very traditional weapons that remain important to tribal figures in these regions. Even the very old blades are, as in many cultures, remounted and refurbished as they change hands as heirlooms. Scabbards were apparantly often red or brown goatskin, and the black paintover on this is very curious, perhaps whoever acquired it sought to dramatize the gold metal on the hilt. Best regards, Jim

5th November 2009, 01:42 AM	#9
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	Hi Jim, many thanks for the interesting informations. Please let me know if with "quite modern interpretation" you mean that this sword was made in the mid XX century or you think it is a fake. As regard to the guard and the wrapping at the base of the hilt surely you noted that the sword in Hermann Historica are similar. You think they belong to the same period ? The sword from the Hermann below the langet has still some iron oxides because in a kaskara, as well in many other swords, is the worse place to clean. thanks again Mauro

5th November 2009, 06:33 AM	#10
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Hi Mauro, Also, welcome to the forum, and its good to have you here. I would like to see the example you bought in Kasalla, which was a key production location for kaskaras in the 19th century. I very much dislike the very blunt assessments using the term 'fake' although certainly there are times when such terms are hard to avoid. While certainly these areas experience thier share of foreign visitors, and do produce 'modern interpretations' to satisfy commercial needs (tourist items), I always try to consider that modern versions may still serve as traditional accoutrements. It does not seem to me that 'tourist' wares would carry these authentic Islamic inscriptions, from my understanding at least. The very irregularly applied zig zag decoration simply recalls the much more carefully worked silver repousse of the true early examples, and as noted, these are modern, probably within the last 30 years. On the site here, Lee Jones has written an excellent article on the takoubas and kaskaras of North Africa, and will offer good insight into these very interesting weapons. All the best, Jim

6th November 2009, 05:26 AM	#14
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Mauro, I have sent you a PM. All best regards, Jim

6th November 2009, 08:23 PM	#15
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Hi Mauro, Apparantly I overlooked the fact that the example you posted from Hermann Historica is from an auction that is pending. I know you are new here, but I must recommend that before reading Lee's article, it is important that you read the rules thread at the very top of the page. Here it states that NO LIVE AUCTIONS may be posted or discussed. What this means is that any auction that has not completed cannot be discussed or linked, nor any of the items in it. After the auction has ended, it is OK. Thank you again for posting, and I hope you note that I sent a PM (private message)...these are found in the upper right hand corner of the screen when you sign in to the discussion forums. Thanks a lot, Jim