KRIS COPPER HILT

tanaruz · 26th July 2020, 10:42 AM

Hi friends,

A copper-hilted kris from the collection of my father. Maranao, half wavy (3-lok) and half-straight(ranti type). Circa 1900-1920. The only kris in my father's collection that has a copper-weave on its hilt.

What do you call the pommel design on this blade?
And I was just wondering- could this be a twist-core type of a kris?

Enjoy,

Yves

Battara · 28th July 2020, 02:34 AM

Need close ups of the blade to be sure.

Usually this type of blade doesn't have a twist core. It appears to be Maguindanao in origin.

Rick · 28th July 2020, 02:52 AM

I see no evidence that this blade had a stirrup (asang asang) when the handle was bound with copper wire.
The blade does appear to have a separate gangya.
I'd guess this is not the original wrap on this handle; but it must have looked pretty good when polished.

kino · 11th August 2020, 12:08 AM

The pommel can be classified as a kakatua.
Blade has 5 waves, limaseko.
Battara has already addressed the twist-core question.

Ian · 11th August 2020, 05:12 AM

Hi Yves,

I agree with what others have said. It is hard to know if this one had an asang asang, as Rick has noted. However, there is a groove where such a structure could have fitted (see arrows on attached picture). If you are thinking of restoring the hilt, that would be the time to add one if you wanted to. The difficult part is finding a craftsman who could make one from silver.

Ian.

David · 11th August 2020, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Hi Yves,

I agree with what others have said. It is hard to know if this one had an asang asang, as Rick has noted. However, there is a groove where such a structure could l have fitted (see arrows on attached picture). If you are thinking of restoring the hilt, that would be the time to add one if you wanted to. The difficult part is finding a craftsman who could make one from silver.

Ian.

Yes, it does seem that an asang asang was not part of the latest hilting of this kris, but i suspect that there probably was one originally. The blade was certainly made to accommodate one.
Since Yves lives in the Philippines he may stand a much better chance of finding someone to be able to craft an asang asang for him. There are still a good number of blade smiths there turning out edged weapons of this type. I see no reason why it need be crafted from silver however. AFAIK most asang asang were not made of precious metals.

Mickey the Finn · 18th August 2020, 08:27 AM

I don't know what the word is, to refer to the braiding/plaiting/weaving on the hilt. This sort of work, as well as the split rattan weaving often found on the "warangka" (warangka, of course, is not the right word, but I use it in lieu of "scabbard" of Mandau is pretty impressive. Looking at the way it's done on the hilt shown in the photos, it appears to be a braid/plait of three sets of paired wires twisted together, or two sets of paired wires with a single wire, or a set of two paired wires braided with two single wires, or two paired wires braided with three single wires, wrapped around the hilt, then (to accomplish the linking of the salient "bands" along the axis/lengthwise along the hilt) part over/under, then resume braiding and part over/under the next horizontal "band". As can be seen in the photos, some unraveling has taken place; in some instances it can be hard to tell if certain wires have been broken, or if the original work incorporated dropping and/or picking up/adding strands of wire into the braid.
N.B: With apologies, I use the terms "braid", "plait", and "sennit" sometimes interchangeably, and in a way which may be less-than-precise, technically speaking. I hope the meaning I intended to convey can still be understood by the layman as well as the specialist. For myself, Philippine sandata are less-than-familiar ground. I've been told Warren Buffet once said, "Never buy anything you don't understand". With one possible exception, (because I suspect it's a re-worked piece originally manufactured in the U.S.) I've taken his advice to heart. Braiding, on the other hand, I have a little experience with.

26th July 2020, 10:42 AM	#1
tanaruz Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 267	KRIS COPPER HILT Hi friends, A copper-hilted kris from the collection of my father. Maranao, half wavy (3-lok) and half-straight(ranti type). Circa 1900-1920. The only kris in my father's collection that has a copper-weave on its hilt. What do you call the pommel design on this blade? And I was just wondering- could this be a twist-core type of a kris? Enjoy, Yves Attached Images

11th August 2020, 05:12 AM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,194	Hi Yves, I agree with what others have said. It is hard to know if this one had an asang asang, as Rick has noted. However, there is a groove where such a structure could have fitted (see arrows on attached picture). If you are thinking of restoring the hilt, that would be the time to add one if you wanted to. The difficult part is finding a craftsman who could make one from silver. Ian. Attached Images Last edited by Ian; 12th August 2020 at 06:46 AM. Reason: Added picture

28th July 2020, 02:34 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	Need close ups of the blade to be sure. Usually this type of blade doesn't have a twist core. It appears to be Maguindanao in origin.

28th July 2020, 02:52 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	I see no evidence that this blade had a stirrup (asang asang) when the handle was bound with copper wire. The blade does appear to have a separate gangya. I'd guess this is not the original wrap on this handle; but it must have looked pretty good when polished.

11th August 2020, 12:08 AM	#4
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,001	The pommel can be classified as a kakatua. Blade has 5 waves, limaseko. Battara has already addressed the twist-core question.

18th August 2020, 08:27 AM	#7
Mickey the Finn Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 90	I don't know what the word is, to refer to the braiding/plaiting/weaving on the hilt. This sort of work, as well as the split rattan weaving often found on the "warangka" (warangka, of course, is not the right word, but I use it in lieu of "scabbard" of Mandau is pretty impressive. Looking at the way it's done on the hilt shown in the photos, it appears to be a braid/plait of three sets of paired wires twisted together, or two sets of paired wires with a single wire, or a set of two paired wires braided with two single wires, or two paired wires braided with three single wires, wrapped around the hilt, then (to accomplish the linking of the salient "bands" along the axis/lengthwise along the hilt) part over/under, then resume braiding and part over/under the next horizontal "band". As can be seen in the photos, some unraveling has taken place; in some instances it can be hard to tell if certain wires have been broken, or if the original work incorporated dropping and/or picking up/adding strands of wire into the braid. N.B: With apologies, I use the terms "braid", "plait", and "sennit" sometimes interchangeably, and in a way which may be less-than-precise, technically speaking. I hope the meaning I intended to convey can still be understood by the layman as well as the specialist. For myself, Philippine sandata are less-than-familiar ground. I've been told Warren Buffet once said, "Never buy anything you don't understand". With one possible exception, (because I suspect it's a re-worked piece originally manufactured in the U.S.) I've taken his advice to heart. Braiding, on the other hand, I have a little experience with.