SPANISH BLADES 18TH C. -NEED ASSIST

[Jim McDougall]

We have had great discussions on Spanish swords of 17th-18th c.here over the years, and one of the recurring difficulties has been determining just how long the Toledo masters produced blades through the 17th century.....as well as how to determine which are authentically Toledo, or German productions using spurious Spanish markings.

I have been working on a project concerning the Spanish blades used in the colonies in New Spain, primarily in Spanish California (1780-1820).

It seems that though it is typically presumed from accounts that the swords
in use were with Toledo blades (esp. those with the 'Spanish motto'). In a quote from recollections of a caballero (Don Antonio Coronel) declared "..every man had a good Spanish blade from Toledo".

While that quote was from the 1830s, most of the blades circulating in California (by then Mexican California) were the Spanish dragoon blades on M1728 bilbo form from 1780s+

In "Spanish Military Weapons in Colonial America 1700-1821" (1972, p.90) by Brinckerhoff & Chamberlain it states,
"...breakage of cavalry blades made at Toledo was not uncommon in the colonies, and requests from commanders in California indicate a preference for blades from Catelonia".

This is confirmed by records from the Santa Barbara presidio ("Arms and Armament of Presidios in California", Michael Hardwick, 2006);
1782....." ...swords of Toledo steel were tempered so highly that they would break if used carelessly". ?

Further specified were requests for blades from GERMANY, CATALONIA or VALENCIA.
In another reference the same year, again noted, "...the swords break into several pieces consequently they are considered of little use" and blades from GERMANY, BARCELONA or VALENCIA are ordered for repair.

THE DILEMMA:

While a great deal of material in English details Toledo makers, there is virtually nothing I can find on makers in Catalonia, Barcelona or Valencia.

Is there any information on these makers in the 18th century?
I know that the Toledo factory was not reopened until c. 1780, and a master from Valencia was the first to work there.......but beyond that ???????

In California in the 1780s and later, there was little warfare aside from skirmishes with Indian tribes, but no major conflict. So what were these guys doing to break swords?

Who were these other makers in Spain ??? references on markings? examples?

Sure would appreciate any help!!!

[ulfberth]

Hi Jim, i would be eager to find more historical info about the use of swords or rapiers in California and Mexico in the late 18th and early 19th C, and how long these were used. I know Fabrica de Toledo made very high quality decorative rapiers somewere between 1850 and 1880 mostly honorary presents for the colonies but these were indeed real weapons.
On the contrary what many of us think rapiers were used much longer be it sporadic in duels, the last known and even filmed was in 1967 in France https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e68nuAcSuWQ . I know its not exactly the topic of your thread but perhaps i can find more info on how long they were in use,
Kind regards
Ulfberth

[fernando]

Jim, old chum ...
Rather than non Toledan sword smiths from the period you are looking for, i would indicate Valencian masters who were active prior to that date. Perhaps not useful for your present project but maybe for your future works.

"c.1541. Sword of Francisco Pizarro, made in Valencia by the armourer Mateo Duarte"

"sword of Francis I of France exposed in the "Musée de l'Armée" in Paris. Forged in Valencia by Antonivs ".


.

[ulfberth]

Between 1824-1868, the Fábrica de Toledo still traditional forging methods !
And altough there were many wallhangers made in Europe in the neo renaissance period, many of the Toledo swords were indeed made traditional and are real weapons i can testify for that .
Below more information on the subject from by Juan José Pérez found at angelfire.com
The Edged Weapons Factory at Toledo:

From the 15th to 17th centuries, the Castillian city of Toledo in central Spain, flourished with an exceptional blade making industry, surpassing other Spanish cities like Valencia, some villages in Basque Country, or even the capital, Madrid. Toledo was considered as the standard of excellence for European blade production, and there were only a few places, like Solingen or Passau in Germany, that surpassed Toledo in terms of production volume. Blade production in Toledo was the responsibility of individual smiths, associated in a guild. It was a rather disperse and personal activity, although the guild was in charge of keeping production quality at a high level.

In late 17th and the beginning of 18th century, a slow decrease of blade production took place in Toledo. It was influenced in part by the reduction of orders coming from individual customers as the sword lost importance as part of a gentleman dressing. Also, with the arrival of the French Bourbon kings, the smallsword fashion came to Spain. The imports of these light French blades damaged the production of Spanish traditional heavier rapiers.

The decreasing number of Toledo bladesmiths was a real problem for the Spanish Army. Swords and sabres were still essential for Cavalry troops, as well as the bayonet for the Infantry. The decreasing number of bladesmiths threatened the supply of quality blades for troops.
Considering all of the above, in 1761 King Charles III of Spain dedicated the foundation of a Royal Sword Factory in Toledo (Real Fábrica de Espadas de Toledo), where all the bladesmiths of the city were ordered to congregate. The first location for the Fábrica was the old Mint of Toledo, in the center of the city. Luis Calisto, a famous old master from Valencia, was called to create the workshops and organize production process. Some bladesmiths came with him to reinforce the staff.

Soon the necessity of improving production conditions was noticed, and in 1777 the construction of a new building close to Tajo River was started under the direction of Sabatini, a famous Italian architect of that time. This building would remain as the main location of the Fábrica until its end in 20th century.

In late 17th century, the control of the factory was assigned to the Artillery Corps of the Spanish army. The most famous Director of the Fábrica in that period was Lorenzo de la Plana, who improved both quality and quantity of blades produced in Toledo factory.

At the beginning of 19th century the Fabrica primarily assembled brass-hilted swords and sabres. Until 1839 the hilts (and scabbards) for all models except infantry were bought from individual producers in northern Spain. One of those individuals was Ybarzábal, a famous arms and armour producer from Basque Country, marking hilts and scabbards with his name. Pieces dating from that period are of special interest to collectors. After 1839, all sword parts were produced at Toledo.

From 1808 to 1812, due to Napoleonic Wars, the factory was moved to Seville, and then Cadiz, in southern Spain. However, some production continued in Toledo under French administration. In the period between 1824-1868, the Fábrica enjoyed a stable situation, and the production of blades, always following traditional forging methods, reached levels in the range of 10,000-12,000 units per year. At the same location more than 5.000 swords were mounted per year. At that time the factory had workshops dedicated to forging, finishing, chiselling and etching blades.

In 1868 new machine tools were installed, taking advantage of Tajo River waters. With the addition of new machines, production reached a maximum peak of 40,000 blades per year. In next decade cast-steel blades first appeared, being produced alongside traditionally forged blades until late 19th century, when production converted entirely to machine-made blades. At this time, the Fabrica also installed machinery for production of light firearms cartridges.

At the beginning of 20th century, only cavalry trooper swords and officer models for all corps were produced. After Spanish Civil War, production was reduced to officer swords only. Because of the reduced demand for quality swords, the Fábrica closed in late 1970s. The two hundred-year history of blade forging excellence had reached an end.

About factory markings, we should mention that, unlike other Spanish factories devoted to firearm production, Toledo's blades did not bear inspection markings. Inspectors simply destroyed those blades that did not pass the though inspection process applied to them. Blades were stamped with factory marks later, so any blade from the Fábrica showing Toledo's marking had been tested.

Nearly all blades produced at Toledo factory were marked with year of production (until the 20th century) and a reference to the Fábrica (the abbreviation To, or the legend Fábrica de Toledo or Fábrica Nacional de Toledo). In late 17th and beginning of 18th c. the mark of current Spanish king usually appeared (for instance, C IV for Charles IV). Sometimes a reference to Artillery Corp, which was in charge of the factory, was added. Because of that, the appearance of Artillería or Arta does not necessarily mean that you are looking at an artillery sword! Blades were only stamped with regimental marks from 1761 to 1814. But be careful: for example, Heavy Cavalry swords were marked as CaLa, which means "Caballería de Línea", not Light Cavalry. In the same way, Dragoon swords were marked as D.

From the second part of 19th century to the Fábrica's closing, several stamps combining crossed cannons with Fábrica de Toledo legend were used along with serial numbers, and after WWI the last official mark, combining F, N & T letters under a royal crown, first appeared.

[Jim McDougall]

Ulfberth, thank you so much for responding!
The exact topic I am researching does concern the use of rapiers in the colonies of Spain in the New World, however my focus is on Alta California from the 1780s into the 1840s.

We know that the traditional Spanish cup hilt remained in use quite late relative to the small sword which had evolved from the 17th c,with the French and Italian schools of fence predominating at open of 18th onward.

However as far as I have found, the cup hilt in the Americas was more confined in use to the Caribbean Spanish sphere, including the colonies from North America into South America. These were notably cruder than the refined and beautiful cup hilts of the 17th century, but maintained the traditional 'taza' (cup) so treasured by the Spanish swordsman.

The 'bilbo', or dragoon sword generally held as pattern of 1728 was actually in use earlier likely and ubiquitous throughout Spain and its colonies as the regulation sword well through the 18th into the 19th c.

In California, we know these were commonly present, and they became commonly rehilted with three bar cavalry hilts in the early 19th century as soldiers retired and became landed caballeros. Many of these were also rehilted with blades cut down into the popular machete form known as the espada ancha (which I recently wrote on in an article published in Sweden).

The question is:
Were long swords (i.e. full length small swords, also often termed rapiers) in any sort of abundance among colonists in California in the 1780s-1840s, and were there cases of their use in duels (in any degree) with the caballeros.?

There were no notable mentions of any such events in material I have found, and no instances of 'cup hilt rapiers'......however, we know the small sword (espadin) did have notable presence in the more populated presidio areas.

My interest in these 'other' sword centers in Spain is centered on the fact that California officers in this period were insisting on blades from other than Toledo because the Toledo blades would break.
This suggests there was some sort of active use of these swords other than periodic conflict with Indian groups...which may have included either some training with the sword, or even combative use (such as in duels).

You are totally right about the remarkably late use of swords in duels into modern times, and that in a way directly relates to my topic...the use of the sword in California in 1780s-1840s in possible dueling contact. These would have to have been small swords......or could the heavier cavalry swords have been used as well?

All best regards
Jim

[Jim McDougall]

In rereading this thread, I missed noting the important details on Valencia swordsmiths add Fernando added in his post which are profoundly salient in establishing not just which cities were concurrently producing blades along with Toledo....but the names specifically of makers.

In reading about the eventual collapse of the blade making industry in Toledo which took place over time in the 17th c. ...to read that when King Charles III in Spain tried to rebuild a factory there in 1760.....the SINGLE smith he could find was 70 year old Luis Calixto of VALENCIA ("By the Sword" , Richard Cohen, 2002. p.115).

It seems there were makers as well in the 16th-17th centuries in Seville and Valladolid; and according to other sources in the 18th century, Barcelona (which is of course Catalan) was a source more favored than Toledo for blades.


Other than the references in the Palomares nomina specifically noting Madrid and Zaragoza...it does seem Valencia was a most important center.

[midelburgo]

There are two nice Valencia rapiers pictured in Norman. From Paris invalides.

There are a couple of good books on the Catalonian side. The first one has some pictures of interesting models and marks, but after 1714. The second one is mostly about fireweapons.

The cover on one of the editions of Swords and hilt weapons has a nice Barcelona sword from XVIIIth century.

[midelburgo]

This is a smallsword from Valencia.

Dish attachment through 4 screws in a lozenge, as some 1728 cavalry swords.

[midelburgo]

I just discovered a book that can be of your interes.

pdf is available here

https://publicaciones.defensa.gob.es...ml?___store=es

https://publicaciones.defensa.gob.es..._comanches.pdf

[Jim McDougall]

Midelburgo, thank you so much for this, and the VALENCIA sword!!! It seems these are so little seen in our part of the world....not sure how often seen over there. I really appreciate all your input on this topic!