Vietnamese Guom

[Miguel]

Hello Everyone, Would like to share these photos of a Guom I have had for a long time and would appreciate any comments you may have, particularly with regard to age and use. the scabbard and hilt are nicely made and decorated but the blade seems pretty rough to me and not up to the same standard. Were they just for show? We have a saying which may sound crude but, to me, aptly describes the subject sword and that is "All fur coat and no knickers"
Regards
Miguel

[Sajen]

Hello Miguel,

from the outside it's indeed a very nice guom which show age and wear but in a very good condition. Turn of the centuries?

Would like to see some close-up's from the blade but it seems indeed very rough worked. Is it laminated? Thick or thin?

The sword will look beautiful on the wall!

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Here a link to a similar one: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=guom
Also not the best blade quality.

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Miguel,

from the outside it's indeed a very nice guom which show age and wear but in a very good condition. Turn of the centuries?

Would like to see some close-up's from the blade but it seems indeed very rough worked. Is it laminated? Thick or thin?

The sword will look beautiful on the wall!

Regards,
Detlef

Hello Detlef, thanks for the reply and info. I have not got any close ups of the blade but will take some and post them for your appraisal in the next day or two as I will have to root it out of a storage box. You may then be able to tell whether it is laminated or not and also I will provide the dimensions at the same time. Thanks also for the link most interesting.
Regards
Miguel

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Miguel,

from the outside it's indeed a very nice guom which show age and wear but in a very good condition. Turn of the centuries?

Would like to see some close-up's from the blade but it seems indeed very rough worked. Is it laminated? Thick or thin?

The sword will look beautiful on the wall!

Regards,
Detlef

Hello Detlef, As promised photos of blade. Since your reply I have been carrying out a little research which has proved to be very interesting. Apparently these swords were carried by Officers of the Nguyen dynasty (1802 / 1945) and from the various images I have seen my sword is mid to late 19th C. The first emperor influenced the design of the sword which is a mixture of Vietnamese, European and Chinese, he favoured the Chinese hence the chape, decoration of the silver fittings and beautiful mother of pearl inlay. The blades on the images I found all looked more or less like mine, narrow, thin, pretty rough and not much use in combat but as they were used for official and ceremonial functions it did not really matter. A cnother common feature of the bladesw were two fullers changing to three part way along its length. I read where the Officers on the official occasions held their swords in the scabbards, vertically, with the the chapes pointing up.
The French confiscated as many of these swords as they could during their occupation and the Communists confiscated as many as they could of what remained during their rule so they would appear to be fairly scarce items and that I am lucky to own one Sorry to rabbit on but I thought you may be interested as you are the only member kind enough to reply.
Dimenions O/L with scabbard 36 ins, O/L without scabbard 32 ins, blade length 25.5 ins x 1 ins wide x 0.1875 ins thick.
Now photos.
Regards
Miguel

[Sajen]

Hello Miguel,

thank you very much for the additional pictures, indeed a a very rough worked blade, I am not able to tell if the blade is laminated, sorry. But I think that the blade could be used for a real fight when needed, nearly half cm thickness seems to be enough for a blade.
A very nice and interesting sword, congrats!

Regards,
Detlef

[Ian]

Miguel:

Sorry to come to this one late. I recently returned from overseas and a bit jet lagged.

IMO Detlef has correctly identified the age of this one as around 1900 or a little earlier. The low quality blades were common, and they were essentially parade swords--for show rather than combat.

Surprisingly they are not all that rare given the history you noted. I think some that were confiscated were tucked away as "souvenirs" or sold off to foreigners. I have not seen any in my trips to Vietnam, but rather they seem to come up in European auctions and online from western dealers.

Ian.

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Miguel,

thank you very much for the additional pictures, indeed a a very rough worked blade, I am not able to tell if the blade is laminated, sorry. But I think that the blade could be used for a real fight when needed, nearly half cm thickness seems to be enough for a blade.
A very nice and interesting sword, congrats!

Regards,
Detlef

Hello Detlef, Thanks anyway. I agree that the blade could be used in a fight, better than nothing but I don't think it was made for fighting. I noticed the date on my photos, taken yesterday. looks like I will have to alter it on my camera
Regards
Miguel

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Ian

Miguel:

Sorry to come to this one late. I recently returned from overseas and a bit jet lagged.

IMO Detlef has correctly identified the age of this one as around 1900 or a little earlier. The low quality blades were common, and they were essentially parade swords--for show rather than combat.

Surprisingly they are not all that rare given the history you noted. I think some that were confiscated were tucked away as "souvenirs" or sold off to foreigners. I have not seen any in my trips to Vietnam, but rather they seem to come up in European auctions and online from western dealers.

Ian.

Hello Ian, Thank you for your comments, I agree with you and Detief regarding the date and with you regarding its use i.e. parade not combat. You are probably right about the confiscated weapons being kept as souvenirs and sold off but as the French had the best pick they would probably have taken them back to Europe. My youngest son normaly visits Vietnam once a year and he has not seen any there.
Regards
Miguel

[Philip]

There are a few of these on display in the history museums in Saigon and Hanoi, but it's true that the majority of examples appear on the Western antique arms market. For a long time they have been ID'd as Chinese ("warlord swords", haha) or even as Malay or Indonesian. It may well be that some were made for the tourist trade during the French colonial period, quality varies and I've run into a few that have nickel plated brass blades and fittings of exaggerated proportion and style. Others have fully functional blades, I have 3 in my collection which are very well made, at least 7mm thick at the forte and edges are tempered, all this on top of the fancy-shmancy inlays, carving, and chased silver. I once had a fourth one that incorporated a recycled French shortsword blade, badly pitted unfortunately. Looking at old photos, one sees that these weapons were regalia sabers for military mandarins. On parade, the officer was preceded by two subalterns, one holding the guom vertically in its scabbard (the blades were not drawn out) much like an English lord-mayor's bearing-sword, the other carrying the ceremonial parasol. On garrison duty, the guom was displayed vertically on a rack in front of the mandarin's tent. Years ago, the antiques magazine Arts of Asia ran an article on Vietnamese silverwork, and it mentioned these sabers fitted-up by silversmiths who specialized in such regalia, the trade being handed down for generations. The abdication of the Nguyen Dynasty's last emperor in 1945 and the disbanding of the imperial guard would have put an end to the market for these swords.

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Philip

There are a few of these on display in the history museums in Saigon and Hanoi, but it's true that the majority of examples appear on the Western antique arms market. For a long time they have been ID'd as Chinese ("warlord swords", haha) or even as Malay or Indonesian. It may well be that some were made for the tourist trade during the French colonial period, quality varies and I've run into a few that have nickel plated brass blades and fittings of exaggerated proportion and style. Others have fully functional blades, I have 3 in my collection which are very well made, at least 7mm thick at the forte and edges are tempered, all this on top of the fancy-shmancy inlays, carving, and chased silver. I once had a fourth one that incorporated a recycled French shortsword blade, badly pitted unfortunately. Looking at old photos, one sees that these weapons were regalia sabers for military mandarins. On parade, the officer was preceded by two subalterns, one holding the guom vertically in its scabbard (the blades were not drawn out) much like an English lord-mayor's bearing-sword, the other carrying the ceremonial parasol. On garrison duty, the guom was displayed vertically on a rack in front of the mandarin's tent. Years ago, the antiques magazine Arts of Asia ran an article on Vietnamese silverwork, and it mentioned these sabers fitted-up by silversmiths who specialized in such regalia, the trade being handed down for generations. The abdication of the Nguyen Dynasty's last emperor in 1945 and the disbanding of the imperial guard would have put an end to the market for these swords.

Hello Philip, Thank you for your interesting information, I have seen these with really good blades but only in pictures and not very many it seems that you are lucky to have some with good blades and not the crude ones more commonly seen. To me the outstanding thing about these is the scabbards the workmanship is excellent and the decoration beautiful. I wonder what the silversmiths and the shimancy craftspeople turnened their hands to when the requirement for these items ceased?
Regards
Miguel