Miniature Keris Sajen

mariusgmioc · 17th April 2016, 05:58 PM

Hello,

Just got a very small Keris Sajen and I would like to learn more about it. Is it old, is it new? Is it valuable or just a tourist souvenir?

Best regards,

Marius

David · 17th April 2016, 07:06 PM

That is fairly small for a even a keris sajen, but certainly not unheard of. I always find age rather difficult to determine with this type of keris. They have been making them for hundreds of years and there aren't really many stylistic variations that can act as indicators to different time periods here. Yours does not look new, but exactly what time period it was made i will leave for others to determine. Keris sajen are talismanic blades of rather plain and simple design and i am not aware of them being all to popular in the tourist market were people tend to look for a little more bling to remember their trips by. I would certainly not consider this a tourist item.

A. G. Maisey · 18th April 2016, 11:56 AM

Its certainly not made as souvenir Marius, its probably not all that old, maybe early 20th century, but it is the real deal.

The very much older and enormously more expensive sajens are often able to be dated by the type of hat they are wearing --- after Islamic domination they sometimes wear a fez-like hat, in my personal collection, and pictured on my site, is one with a European hat, and interestingly the entire keris has been made in a reverse orientation. Sajens of this type are seldom seen and when they do become available they bring very big money.

My guess is that what you have shown us is more likely to have been made as purely talismanic keris, rather than as an offering keris.

mariusgmioc · 18th April 2016, 01:23 PM

Thank you very much for your very educative comments!

I am quite happy to hear the mini keris is traditionally made and "the real thing!"

mariusgmioc · 18th April 2016, 02:44 PM

Doubled message deleted.

mariusgmioc · 18th April 2016, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The very much older and enormously more expensive sajens are often able to be dated by the type of hat they are wearing --- after Islamic domination they sometimes ear a fez-like hat, in my personal collection, and pictured on my site, is one with a European hat, and interestingly the entire keris has been made in a reverse orientation.

Hello Alan,

I saw the one with European hat (no. 14 on your site) and I guess it would be a Dutch hat. I still find it very odd and funny.

Sajen · 18th April 2016, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

My guess is that what you have shown us is more likely to have been made as purely talismanic keris, rather than as an offering keris.

Hello Alan,

could it be that the blade is reshaped?

Regards,
Detlef

mariusgmioc · 18th April 2016, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Alan,

could it be that the blade is reshaped?

Regards,
Detlef

Very interesting question.

But if yes, then why and how (as I cannot see any signs of post-processing) - not that I am an expert in this.

Sajen · 18th April 2016, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Very interesting question.

But if yes, then why and how (as I cannot see any signs of post-processing) - not that I am an expert in this.

Hello Marius,

here a keris sajen from my own collection, I get it very rusted with this eaten blade tip. It get cleaned with lemon acid and received a warangan. I know that it is common in Indonesia to reshape such rusted blades. It could happened by your keris sajen. Just a guess!

So my question to Alan.
Sorry for the poor pictures.

Regards,
Detlef

mariusgmioc · 18th April 2016, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Marius,

here a keris sajen from my own collection, I get it very rusted with this eaten blade tip. It get cleaned with lemon acid and received a warangan. I know that it is common in Indonesia to reshape such rusted blades. It could happened by your keris sajen. Just a guess!

So my question to Alan.
Sorry for the poor pictures.

Regards,
Detlef

Hello Detlef,

Yes, I see your point. Thank you for this very interesting information!

A. G. Maisey · 18th April 2016, 10:21 PM

I don't know Detlef, in my book, anything is possible, the form of Marius' keris seems to me to be vaguely Bugis, maybe it was made like this in the first place, or as you suggest, somewhere, some time, somebody took a file to it.

Who knows?

mariusgmioc · 19th April 2016, 01:53 PM

Hello Sajen an Alan,

Thank you for this very interesting discussion!

If it is resahped, it definitely isn't simply mechacanically cut to shape as the blade bears absolutely no traces of mechanical machining. It appears formed like this from hot iron.

17th April 2016, 05:58 PM	#1
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Miniature Keris Sajen Hello, Just got a very small Keris Sajen and I would like to learn more about it. Is it old, is it new? Is it valuable or just a tourist souvenir? Best regards, Marius Attached Images

18th April 2016, 11:56 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,888	Its certainly not made as souvenir Marius, its probably not all that old, maybe early 20th century, but it is the real deal. The very much older and enormously more expensive sajens are often able to be dated by the type of hat they are wearing --- after Islamic domination they sometimes wear a fez-like hat, in my personal collection, and pictured on my site, is one with a European hat, and interestingly the entire keris has been made in a reverse orientation. Sajens of this type are seldom seen and when they do become available they bring very big money. My guess is that what you have shown us is more likely to have been made as purely talismanic keris, rather than as an offering keris. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 18th April 2016 at 10:17 PM. Reason: spelling

18th April 2016, 02:44 PM	#5
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Doubled message deleted. Last edited by mariusgmioc; 18th April 2016 at 04:25 PM.

17th April 2016, 07:06 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,119	That is fairly small for a even a keris sajen, but certainly not unheard of. I always find age rather difficult to determine with this type of keris. They have been making them for hundreds of years and there aren't really many stylistic variations that can act as indicators to different time periods here. Yours does not look new, but exactly what time period it was made i will leave for others to determine. Keris sajen are talismanic blades of rather plain and simple design and i am not aware of them being all to popular in the tourist market were people tend to look for a little more bling to remember their trips by. I would certainly not consider this a tourist item.

18th April 2016, 01:23 PM	#4
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Thank you very much for your very educative comments! I am quite happy to hear the mini keris is traditionally made and "the real thing!"

18th April 2016, 10:21 PM	#11
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,888	I don't know Detlef, in my book, anything is possible, the form of Marius' keris seems to me to be vaguely Bugis, maybe it was made like this in the first place, or as you suggest, somewhere, some time, somebody took a file to it. Who knows?

19th April 2016, 01:53 PM	#12
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Hello Sajen an Alan, Thank you for this very interesting discussion! If it is resahped, it definitely isn't simply mechacanically cut to shape as the blade bears absolutely no traces of mechanical machining. It appears formed like this from hot iron.