Importing ivory

Jens Nordlunde · 21st August 2017, 03:48 PM

This has been discussed a number of times, but it is very important.
The link does not tell how expensive is was, but Manuscher had also offended the law, which was registreted - not very good for a banker as he writes - this was in 2003.
So if you buy anything with ivory - ask the seller to get a CITES certificate, or dont buy the weapon.
Since 2003 the different countries have focused more on CITES, so dont try to save the money for a certificate.
https://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=309

Lee · 21st August 2017, 05:30 PM

Members are advised to review legal restrictions applying to their jurisdiction when offering or acquiring items that incorporate such materials as ivory or rhino horn.

At the US national level, here is a brief review of restrictions to import, export and interstate trade: Can I Sell It?

Further analysis of state level restrictions may be found at: Understanding Ivory Lay

In my personal opinion, CITES was very poorly implemented by the US and the rash of recent laws and regulations concerning such trade of antiques within the US are very unlikely to serve the legitimate purpose of saving any wildlife. But, if you are caught violating any of these laws, the governments can and will hurt you.

Jens Nordlunde · 21st August 2017, 06:10 PM

Thank you Lee.
Somehow I have a feeling that some members does not take this very serious - but it is very serious.
I agree with Lee, that the law is not what it should have been - but it is there.

theswordcollector · 2nd November 2017, 09:26 AM

Germany is a nightmare. I sent a parcel via U.S.P.S. to Hermann Historica for auction/consignment with a German WW2 tunic and two German helmets that were confiscated by their customs and after a lengthy legal proceeding with the auction house legal department they finally released my items to the auction house but they could not find one of the helmets, (the most expensive one). First they said it was never in the parcel until I asked them to weigh the parcel and compare the weight to the weight on my shipping receipt and then they switched their story to the one helmet from the box was lost in customs. I was later justified and was to be reimbursed for my loss but the U.S. post office said they could not cover my claim because the package was seized originally and second the Munich state attorney found them guilty of loosing (misplacing the helmet but not the rest of the package LOL) To date I have still never been reimbursed for my loss of 1.450 Euro and the auction house did nothing more to help me further with the matter. Starting with customs confiscating everything from artifacts ,antique ivory handle swords, daggers ,German historical military items it is all a nightmare to deal with and as you know ignorance of the law is no excuse. Steer clear of shipping anything in these categories to Germany or else you may find yourself having your items confiscated or (lost/stolen ) along with a hefty fine and or legal problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Thank you Lee.
Somehow I have a feeling that some members does not take this very serious - but it is very serious.
I agree with Lee, that the law is not what it should have been - but it is there.

Jens Nordlunde · 12th November 2017, 04:56 PM

I am sorry to hear about you troubles, and I dont understand it at all, as they are dealing with stuff from WWII all over the place in Germany.

I once bought a Pichangatti from Artzi, and it was sent from the US. When it arrived at a German airport it was confiscated - but in this case returned to the US. So Artzi could get it to me via Francen - I think.
It is only a small knife with some silver on it, so why they stopped it is still a riddle to me.

Jens Nordlunde · 27th January 2018, 09:56 PM

The governments are closing in in ivory 'export', so be very careful what you buy, and what documents you get.
It could be plastic looking like ivory, but then it has to be documented so, as the costumers does not have any knowledge -and even then you may have problems.

Lee · 17th April 2018, 12:58 PM

Here is a link to a New York Times article concerning plans for an over-restrictive ban in Britain.

Jens Nordlunde · 17th April 2018, 03:02 PM

Lee,
Yes I have seen it, and it is very drastic what the UK government is doing.
I very much agree with, that killing the elephants for the ivory, should be stopped, and that the different countries should ban any trade with ivory newer than 100 years. I do, however, find it out of proportion to include old ivory.
Does anyone know what the big auction houses have to say, and if they have tried to get the law softened up a bit?

silberschatzimsee · 25th April 2018, 12:48 AM

Not a single elephant will be saved by these new sjw-laws.

A. G. Maisey · 25th April 2018, 01:10 AM

Absolutely so, in fact, in the long term --- I'm talking perhaps +100 years --- this stupidity will very probably see elephants reduced to skeleton breeding herds scattered across the world.

Jens Nordlunde · 27th May 2018, 03:53 PM

If you think of importing ivory - check the rules in the country where you live.
I have just checked the rules in the country where I live, and should I want to import ivory from a third country (not EU) the seller would need a CITES export cretificate, and I would need a CITES import certificate.
I have a feeling that even with such a certificat all problems are not over, should the customs people be in doubt - and maybe they would be, they may ask an expert to have a look at the item. The costs of the certificates and the expert are on you.

I know it sounds crazy for a serious collector, but to recieve a dagger stripped of its ivory hilt is not funny either - stripped for its historical value and its money value.

Jens Nordlunde · 11th January 2019, 04:37 PM

I have been tempted, so I have tried to check it once more.
I live in Switzerland, so to import a dagger with an ivory hilt I will need a certificate from the seller, and one from the country where I live, but as far as I understand the rules it can differ from country to country - so do check the rules in the country where you live - it is easy to do on the net.

Jens Nordlunde · 21st October 2019, 03:45 PM

Have a look at this http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hp?t=25155link and read all the posts.

AUhills79 · 25th September 2020, 03:43 PM

Trying to figure out how to import an antique ivory hilt dagger into the USA from Europe. Has anyone had any luck with this? Looking at the ESA antiques exception (over 100 years old) and Form 3-177 with documentation demonstrating that the item meets the ESA exception. Any thoughts?

https://www.fws.gov/international/tr...a-cites.html#5

milandro · 27th July 2022, 08:39 AM

as per June 2022 the regulations on Ivory have substantially changed making extremely difficult for common people and leaving it practically open only to institutions such as museums.

I have researched the matter for another such thread on the Kris section
In Other wordt the CITES certificate which once upon a time was what you needed is no longer enough in most cases.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28015

21st August 2017, 03:48 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Importing ivory This has been discussed a number of times, but it is very important. The link does not tell how expensive is was, but Manuscher had also offended the law, which was registreted - not very good for a banker as he writes - this was in 2003. So if you buy anything with ivory - ask the seller to get a CITES certificate, or dont buy the weapon. Since 2003 the different countries have focused more on CITES, so dont try to save the money for a certificate. https://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=309

21st August 2017, 05:30 PM	#2
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 913	Copied from the Swap Forum sticky Members are advised to review legal restrictions applying to their jurisdiction when offering or acquiring items that incorporate such materials as ivory or rhino horn. At the US national level, here is a brief review of restrictions to import, export and interstate trade: Can I Sell It? Further analysis of state level restrictions may be found at: Understanding Ivory Lay In my personal opinion, CITES was very poorly implemented by the US and the rash of recent laws and regulations concerning such trade of antiques within the US are very unlikely to serve the legitimate purpose of saving any wildlife. But, if you are caught violating any of these laws, the governments can and will hurt you.

17th April 2018, 12:58 PM	#7
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 913	Shortsighted legislative stupidity not restricted to one side of the Atlantic Here is a link to a New York Times article concerning plans for an over-restrictive ban in Britain.

25th September 2020, 03:43 PM	#14
AUhills79 Member Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 8	Trying to figure out how to import an antique ivory hilt dagger into the USA from Europe. Has anyone had any luck with this? Looking at the ESA antiques exception (over 100 years old) and Form 3-177 with documentation demonstrating that the item meets the ESA exception. Any thoughts? https://www.fws.gov/international/tr...a-cites.html#5 Last edited by AUhills79; 25th September 2020 at 04:06 PM. Reason: (added link for reference)

27th July 2022, 08:39 AM	#15
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 470	as per June 2022 the regulations on Ivory have substantially changed making extremely difficult for common people and leaving it practically open only to institutions such as museums. I have researched the matter for another such thread on the Kris section In Other wordt the CITES certificate which once upon a time was what you needed is no longer enough in most cases. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28015 Attached Images

21st August 2017, 06:10 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Thank you Lee. Somehow I have a feeling that some members does not take this very serious - but it is very serious. I agree with Lee, that the law is not what it should have been - but it is there.

12th November 2017, 04:56 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I am sorry to hear about you troubles, and I dont understand it at all, as they are dealing with stuff from WWII all over the place in Germany. I once bought a Pichangatti from Artzi, and it was sent from the US. When it arrived at a German airport it was confiscated - but in this case returned to the US. So Artzi could get it to me via Francen - I think. It is only a small knife with some silver on it, so why they stopped it is still a riddle to me.

27th January 2018, 09:56 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	The governments are closing in in ivory 'export', so be very careful what you buy, and what documents you get. It could be plastic looking like ivory, but then it has to be documented so, as the costumers does not have any knowledge -and even then you may have problems.

17th April 2018, 03:02 PM	#8
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Lee, Yes I have seen it, and it is very drastic what the UK government is doing. I very much agree with, that killing the elephants for the ivory, should be stopped, and that the different countries should ban any trade with ivory newer than 100 years. I do, however, find it out of proportion to include old ivory. Does anyone know what the big auction houses have to say, and if they have tried to get the law softened up a bit?

25th April 2018, 12:48 AM	#9
silberschatzimsee Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 90	Not a single elephant will be saved by these new sjw-laws.

25th April 2018, 01:10 AM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,876	Absolutely so, in fact, in the long term --- I'm talking perhaps +100 years --- this stupidity will very probably see elephants reduced to skeleton breeding herds scattered across the world.

27th May 2018, 03:53 PM	#11
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	If you think of importing ivory - check the rules in the country where you live. I have just checked the rules in the country where I live, and should I want to import ivory from a third country (not EU) the seller would need a CITES export cretificate, and I would need a CITES import certificate. I have a feeling that even with such a certificat all problems are not over, should the customs people be in doubt - and maybe they would be, they may ask an expert to have a look at the item. The costs of the certificates and the expert are on you. I know it sounds crazy for a serious collector, but to recieve a dagger stripped of its ivory hilt is not funny either - stripped for its historical value and its money value.

11th January 2019, 04:37 PM	#12
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I have been tempted, so I have tried to check it once more. I live in Switzerland, so to import a dagger with an ivory hilt I will need a certificate from the seller, and one from the country where I live, but as far as I understand the rules it can differ from country to country - so do check the rules in the country where you live - it is easy to do on the net.

21st October 2019, 03:45 PM	#13
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Have a look at this http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hp?t=25155link and read all the posts.