Short Sword ID Requested

RobT · 23rd March 2024, 08:06 PM

Hi All,

I recently got this chopper that the seller described as a middle eastern machete. I’m sure that it is neither middle eastern nor a machete but I haven’t a clue as to what it is. My best guess is southeast Asia with a second guess of northeast Indian subcontinent. The sword is very heavy and could strike a devastating blow but, in my opinion, isn’t balanced for a quick recovery so I suspect that it was for animal sacrifice rather than combat. The blade has one narrow fuller and two incised panels on each side. There are also a number of decorative notches filed into the rebated area. The edge of the rebated area is quite blunt and was never intended to cut. The round brass hilt (whether one piece or multiple pieces, I can’t tell) doesn’t provide the completely positive grip needed for combat. There is a ferrous metal cylinder (probably part of the tang) projecting from the pommel that may have been used to attach a decorative finial but is too short to anchor a two handed grip addition. No sheath
Specs:
Blade Length, about 17.5” long (44.45cm) as measured from the center at hilt to tip at edge
Blade Width, about 2.5” (6.35cm) at tip and 1.75” (4.445cm) just before rebate
Blade Rebate Length, about 5” (12.7cm)
Blade Rebate Width, about1.24’ - 1.125” (3.175cm - 2.8575cm)
SpineThickness, a hair over .5” (1.27cm) at hilt

Sincerely,
RobT

David R · 28th October 2024, 12:59 AM

Odd that there are no comments, but it has a very Chinese "Dadao" look to me.

werecow · 28th October 2024, 01:48 AM

Could be... It might be a stretch but it also reminds me a bit of some Dahomey swords.

Eh, but maybe not the most convincing match though.

JeffS · 28th October 2024, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David R

Odd that there are no comments, but it has a very Chinese "Dadao" look to me.

It also has a bit of an Indian feel with that stubby firangi-like extension on the pommel.

kronckew · 29th October 2024, 02:07 AM

It has the profile of Chinese 'money' knives, tho obviously a real steel blade.

RobT · 29th October 2024, 02:23 AM

David R, werecow, JeffS, and kronkew

Thanks for all your Input. For reasons that I detailed in my initial post, I believe this to be a sacrificial sword from the Indian sub-continent (or somewhere close by) or South East Asia. If it is indeed ceremonial, it would be a good bit more uncommon than a regular sword or knife and only likely to be known to a handful of cultural anthropologists. I was hoping that maybe someone had come across a picture or a drawing in some scholarly journal.

Sincerely,
RobT

Ian · 29th October 2024, 02:27 AM

Rob, I have a vague memory (that happens at my age) of a similar item from one of the Himalayan cultures being discussed here 20+ years ago. I also favor your suggestion that this is Asian in origin. Perhaps a cousin of a ram dao.

RobT · 29th October 2024, 09:31 PM

AN,

Ruefully, I too have noticed some post retirement problems with recall. Perhaps that is why your suggestion of a Himalaya item jogged my memory. Could you be referring to the cham tun of the Mei Tai people? The Mei Tai are the majority population in India’s Manipur state which is located in north east India just south of Nagaland. If I recall correctly, my sword does look a good bit like a cham tun (which in turn looks a lot like a panabas). Perhaps my sword is the sacrificial version.

Sincerely,
RobT

23rd March 2024, 08:06 PM	#1
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 488	Short Sword ID Requested Hi All, I recently got this chopper that the seller described as a middle eastern machete. I’m sure that it is neither middle eastern nor a machete but I haven’t a clue as to what it is. My best guess is southeast Asia with a second guess of northeast Indian subcontinent. The sword is very heavy and could strike a devastating blow but, in my opinion, isn’t balanced for a quick recovery so I suspect that it was for animal sacrifice rather than combat. The blade has one narrow fuller and two incised panels on each side. There are also a number of decorative notches filed into the rebated area. The edge of the rebated area is quite blunt and was never intended to cut. The round brass hilt (whether one piece or multiple pieces, I can’t tell) doesn’t provide the completely positive grip needed for combat. There is a ferrous metal cylinder (probably part of the tang) projecting from the pommel that may have been used to attach a decorative finial but is too short to anchor a two handed grip addition. No sheath Specs: Blade Length, about 17.5” long (44.45cm) as measured from the center at hilt to tip at edge Blade Width, about 2.5” (6.35cm) at tip and 1.75” (4.445cm) just before rebate Blade Rebate Length, about 5” (12.7cm) Blade Rebate Width, about1.24’ - 1.125” (3.175cm - 2.8575cm) SpineThickness, a hair over .5” (1.27cm) at hilt Sincerely, RobT Attached Images

29th October 2024, 02:23 AM	#6
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 488	I Knew It Was A Long Shot David R, werecow, JeffS, and kronkew Thanks for all your Input. For reasons that I detailed in my initial post, I believe this to be a sacrificial sword from the Indian sub-continent (or somewhere close by) or South East Asia. If it is indeed ceremonial, it would be a good bit more uncommon than a regular sword or knife and only likely to be known to a handful of cultural anthropologists. I was hoping that maybe someone had come across a picture or a drawing in some scholarly journal. Sincerely, RobT

29th October 2024, 09:31 PM	#8
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 488	Sacrificial Cham Tun? AN, Ruefully, I too have noticed some post retirement problems with recall. Perhaps that is why your suggestion of a Himalaya item jogged my memory. Could you be referring to the cham tun of the Mei Tai people? The Mei Tai are the majority population in India’s Manipur state which is located in north east India just south of Nagaland. If I recall correctly, my sword does look a good bit like a cham tun (which in turn looks a lot like a panabas). Perhaps my sword is the sacrificial version. Sincerely, RobT

28th October 2024, 12:59 AM	#2
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	Odd that there are no comments, but it has a very Chinese "Dadao" look to me.

28th October 2024, 01:48 AM	#3
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 498	Could be... It might be a stretch but it also reminds me a bit of some Dahomey swords. Eh, but maybe not the most convincing match though.

29th October 2024, 02:07 AM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	It has the profile of Chinese 'money' knives, tho obviously a real steel blade.

29th October 2024, 02:27 AM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,198	Rob, I have a vague memory (that happens at my age) of a similar item from one of the Himalayan cultures being discussed here 20+ years ago. I also favor your suggestion that this is Asian in origin. Perhaps a cousin of a ram dao.