Zulu knife ?

graeme gt · 26th May 2010, 05:39 PM

Large Bowie style blade total length 17" has anyone seen Zulu's carrying knives? It has a braided wire loop with a really heavy brass chain (looks military) going through it.Would like to hear yous comments chaps.Thanks Graeme.

Lew · 26th May 2010, 06:25 PM

Graeme

Sorry to say your knife seems to be something one picks up while traveling for pleasure. I have not seen an actual Zulu knife/dagger I saw a sword once but never a dagger. I would think if they did have one it would be similar to Shona daggers? Your knife reminds me of a European naval dagger with the chain and all

Tim Simmons · 26th May 2010, 06:31 PM

I have seen and handled this piece when it belonged to a collector not too far from where I live. It is indeed a nice piece. The chain is from military horse trapping. The blade is thin but very sharp. I see no reason it is not Zulu but it could be from many tribes in Southern Africa. We the British pushed then all around.

Lew · 26th May 2010, 06:49 PM

Tim

I don't think this traditional Zulu dagger style if there ever was one as in the Shona daggers? This just seems to be a tribal copy of a European style dagger with the addition of Zulu wire work art.

Tim Simmons · 26th May 2010, 07:57 PM

Talking about South African wire work. I have this piece. 109cm long I had to do some emergency repair work as there were a few areas where the wire was coming off. I fixed these areas with my own blend of wax and resin gunge much like any "native" would have. The whole thing can be run through your hands without any wire poking out to snag on.

graeme gt · 26th May 2010, 11:13 PM

I am not sure about this piece but the wire work is tight and well done its not a bit of tourist tat (i hope and think) .The cross guard could have been made out of a flattened cartridge case .You have seen it Tim shoot from the hip what is your vibe man.

asomotif · 27th May 2010, 06:45 AM

Maybe this piece was made by local a worksman to the style and liking of a European or other non Zulu person ?

Think of the Cikeruh / tjikeroe knives from Java.
They had local craftmanship with foreign style characteristics.

Tim Simmons · 27th May 2010, 05:41 PM

Ok graeme, You got it from an auction house in Dorset. You will find that the chain is just long enough to fit over your shoulder with the knife between your body and arm. The chain is heavy too heavy for a helmet strap.

Lew · 28th May 2010, 04:34 PM

I spoke with one of the UK's Zulu experts today and he said "Yes. Of course they did buy knives from white traders, and from the 20th c you see odd examples where they've tried to copy these - but they are not true 'Zulu knives'. Cheers! So Graeme yes your knife is of Zulu manufacture but there is no real stylized tribal form. I was also told that the Zulu used unhafted spearheads as daggers.

katana · 28th May 2010, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

I spoke with one of the UK's Zulu experts today and he said "Yes. Of course they did buy knives from white traders, and from the 20th c you see odd examples where they've tried to copy these - but they are not true 'Zulu knives'. Cheers! So Graeme yes your knife is of Zulu manufacture but there is no real stylized tribal form. I was also told that the Zulu used unhafted spearheads as daggers.

I have seen a 'sheffield' Bowie with Zulu wirework, no pictures I'm afraid, but was obviously a traded/captured piece.

Regards David

graeme gt · 30th May 2010, 08:44 AM

Thanks for your input guys.

26th May 2010, 05:39 PM	#1
graeme gt Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 97	Zulu knife ? Large Bowie style blade total length 17" has anyone seen Zulu's carrying knives? It has a braided wire loop with a really heavy brass chain (looks military) going through it.Would like to hear yous comments chaps.Thanks Graeme. Attached Images

26th May 2010, 06:49 PM	#4
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Tim I don't think this traditional Zulu dagger style if there ever was one as in the Shona daggers? This just seems to be a tribal copy of a European style dagger with the addition of Zulu wire work art. Attached Images

26th May 2010, 07:57 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Talking about South African wire work. I have this piece. 109cm long I had to do some emergency repair work as there were a few areas where the wire was coming off. I fixed these areas with my own blend of wax and resin gunge much like any "native" would have. The whole thing can be run through your hands without any wire poking out to snag on. Attached Images

26th May 2010, 06:25 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Graeme Sorry to say your knife seems to be something one picks up while traveling for pleasure. I have not seen an actual Zulu knife/dagger I saw a sword once but never a dagger. I would think if they did have one it would be similar to Shona daggers? Your knife reminds me of a European naval dagger with the chain and all

26th May 2010, 06:31 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	I have seen and handled this piece when it belonged to a collector not too far from where I live. It is indeed a nice piece. The chain is from military horse trapping. The blade is thin but very sharp. I see no reason it is not Zulu but it could be from many tribes in Southern Africa. We the British pushed then all around.

26th May 2010, 11:13 PM	#6
graeme gt Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 97	I am not sure about this piece but the wire work is tight and well done its not a bit of tourist tat (i hope and think) .The cross guard could have been made out of a flattened cartridge case .You have seen it Tim shoot from the hip what is your vibe man.

27th May 2010, 06:45 AM	#7
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,224	Maybe this piece was made by local a worksman to the style and liking of a European or other non Zulu person ? Think of the Cikeruh / tjikeroe knives from Java. They had local craftmanship with foreign style characteristics.

27th May 2010, 05:41 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Ok graeme, You got it from an auction house in Dorset. You will find that the chain is just long enough to fit over your shoulder with the knife between your body and arm. The chain is heavy too heavy for a helmet strap.

28th May 2010, 04:34 PM	#9
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	I spoke with one of the UK's Zulu experts today and he said "Yes. Of course they did buy knives from white traders, and from the 20th c you see odd examples where they've tried to copy these - but they are not true 'Zulu knives'. Cheers! So Graeme yes your knife is of Zulu manufacture but there is no real stylized tribal form. I was also told that the Zulu used unhafted spearheads as daggers.

30th May 2010, 08:44 AM	#11
graeme gt Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 97	Thanks for your input guys.