Two Kris for comment, and a new member who's eager to learn.

[Rafngard]

Hello All!

I’m a new member in Minneapolis who’s just been bitten by the collecting bug (and thankfully not by my blades!). No smaller part of this comes from my study of Kali (or eskrima, or arnis, an argument for a different forum). Recently, I’ve become the caretaker of a couple of Filipino Kris (krises? Krisii? krisen? I'm not sure on the plural here).

I’m hoping that the more experienced members of this forum might have some insight into the age and origin of these beauties. As they both came from e-pray, I am also prepared to hear that they may be tourist pieces, thought I hope not.

The first one (with the sinuous blade) was claimed by the seller to date to the Spanish American war. The Overall length is 26 3/4" (68ish cm). It is lighter and smaller than the second. A line up the center of the blade (visible in some of the pics) make me think that etching might reveal something fun. The blade displays a slight, but noticeable distal taper. Fittings are all tight (thought the handle wrap could use some love), and it feels light and lively in the hand. I’m not quite sure what the asang-asang are made of, but silver seems plausible, at least to my uneducated eye. The seller thought the hilt was horn, I’m not convinced.

I’m also interested in what people might think about the carvings on the scabbard. Intuitively, I feel like the top one (“the eyes”) might be original, but that the lower ones are probably the additions of a servicemen who fancied himself an artist.

The second one (with the straight blade) was listed by the seller as a “Mono kris,” which is amusing, if confusing. The handle appears to be horn. This one has a monster of a blade (super thick near the base, with a very strong taper), but surprisingly well balanced. I’m interested in the leather piece on the scabbard, though I suspect it’s a latter addition. The asang-asang has a bit of movement to it. Once again, I’m not sure what it’s made of. It should be silver, it could be aluminum. Any tips on how to distinguish I would be glad to hear.

I suspect the hilt, and possible the scabbard originally had some sort of end cap that was removed and/or lost.

I’d be happy to learn anything you all might have to teach me about these pieces. I’m super excited to have them.

I’m including (not very good) pictures that I have taken, and those of the sellers.

p.s. I will post additional photos in comments once this is posted (new member, probation, etc.).

Thanks,
Leif

[Rafngard]

More of the bigger one

[Rafngard]

More of the sinuous one

[Battara]

Mabuhay and welcome to our little forum!

On the first kris, it appears to have a Maranao tribal beginning of the 20th century blade with a perhaps latter rewrapped hilt. The pommel looks like it is horn. The scabbard maybe later and seems to be from the Sulu or copied from Sulu region. I suspect that it was later made, yes like during WWII or a little later.

The second kris appears in the picture to me to be Maguindanao with a horn hilt but stripped of it's silver and hemp bands. There was also a top band as well (more close ups would help). Both blade and scabbard maybe also at the beginning of the 20th century, with the scabbard having the later addition of leather underneath of the cross piece of the scabbard (called the wranga). I agree with you that there were metal bands and a bottom piece originally on the scabbard now missing.

Hope this helps.

[Rafngard]

First of all, thank you very much for your welcome and your opinion. This is very helpful. Also, more pics are now posted.

Can I ask what some of the factors that brought to to that opinion are? Is some of it the shape of the gangya, in particular, what on a keris would be called the gerneng and the kembang kecang? Apologies if I'm misusing the terms, I haven't had much luck finding equivalent terms for the kris, though I admit I have yet to read Cato's book (used copies are rather cost prohibitive currently).

I'm eager to learn, and any help you can give this newbie would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,
Leif

[kronckew]

put a drop of clorox bleach on silver, it will produce a black spot very quickly - within a few minutes. aluminum or nickel silver will not spot. egg yolk also will quickly turn silver black from the sulphur that produces the rotten egg smell.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Rafngard

First of all, thank you very much for your welcome and your opinion. This is very helpful. Also, more pics are now posted.

Can I ask what some of the factors that brought to to that opinion are? Is some of it the shape of the gangya, in particular, what on a keris would be called the gerneng and the kembang kecang? Apologies if I'm misusing the terms, I haven't had much luck finding equivalent terms for the kris, though I admit I have yet to read Cato's book (used copies are rather cost prohibitive currently).

I'm eager to learn, and any help you can give this newbie would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,
Leif

Hi Leif, welcome .
I think you would be well served by checking through the forum archives; there is treasure to be found there in both the Ethnographic and Keris forums .

Yes, the terminology is confusing, and many names for the same feature; what the Javanese would call the Greneng are the notches filed into the tail of the blade where it widens at the hilt .
Kembang Kacang relates to the features found on the opposite side from the Greneng specifically, IIRC, the part that looks like an elephant's trunk .
The differences in this feature area help to identify the tribal or island Moro groups .
I would agree with what Battara has observed about the two examples you have shown us .

[Rafngard]

Thank you both Rick and kronckew for your information.

I'm super happy to hear that the Maguindanao one seems to be early 20th century. I thought it might be latter.

I'm going to try the bleach test on the asang-asang on both of these in the next few days. It turns out there is a silver looking band under the leather.

Any opinions on whether or not it would be worth trying to etch them? The Maranao one in particular has sort of line down the middle that seems to be lighter colored, which makes me suspicious. I've found several recipes/procedures in the archives, but would be more than happy to hear anyone's recommendations.

A question on the Sulu or perhaps faux Sulu scabbard, any thoughts on the carvings? The lower ones seem rather touristy, but the one on the wranga looks stylistically different.

Also, I'm finding so much treasure in the archives here, and I feel like I'm only beginning to scratch the surface. This appears to be a very deep rabbit hole.

Have fun,
Leif