Chindit machete (?)

Ian · 11th June 2005, 08:37 PM

This one finished recently on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6537089740

It looks very much like a British Dah Mk. 3 machete (1944) that was used in some of the Burma campaigns of WWII. In particular, the leather sheath is typical for that machete. The hilt on this example is far better than standard issue, and resembles the one found on the British Dah Mk. 2. A while back I received an email from an elderly British man who had served in Wingate's Chindit force, who told me that an example I had posted several years ago in the Old Forum was actually a Chindit machete. These had been made in India and were fitted with the older Mk. 2 style of hilt. In the example linked above, the hilt shown is of the same general style as the Dah Mk. 2 but much fancier and done in a Burmese manner -- obviously a replacement, but an old one. A rare and unusual military machete. Alas, I was outbid for this item.

Hopefully, the winner knows what he has and maybe would share some more pictures here.

I posted pictures of my example in the Old Forum on this thread Mystery Chopper/Machete. Carter Rila correctly identified the machete at that time.

Here are some details on the Chindits and their leader, Major General Wingate.

"The Chindits were the largest of the allied Special Forces of the 2nd World War. They were formed and lead by Major General Orde Wingate DSO. The Chindits operated deep behind enemy lines in North Burma in the War against Japan. For many months they lived in and fought the enemy in the jungles of Japanese occupied Burma, totally relying on airdrops for their supplies. There were two Chindits expeditions into Burma, the first in February 1943 Operation Longcloth, consisted of a force of 3,000 men who marched over 1,000 miles during the campaign. The second expedition, Operation Thursday, in March 1944 was on a much larger scale. It was the second largest airborne invasion of the war and consisted of a force of 20,000 British and Commonwealth soldiers with air support provided by the 1st Air Commando USAAF. Tragically their leader, General Wingate, was killed a few weeks after the launch of Operation Thursday."

Quoted from Chindits Special Force Burma 1942-1944, http://www.chindits.info/

Tim Simmons · 11th June 2005, 08:46 PM

Hello Ian, I saw this but knew it would be too expensive as an add on to my collection.

Ian · 12th June 2005, 02:43 AM

Hi Tim. Do you have examples of this machete?

Ian.

Tim Simmons · 12th June 2005, 10:12 AM

Hello Ian, I have not come across one of these military issue dha/dao from my usual searches.I only have one native model.Tim

Ian · 14th June 2005, 08:17 PM

Just finished on eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6533243358

This is a typical example of a standard Chindit machete. It is unusual to see one coming out of the US (more commonly from Britain) but this one is provenanced to a WWII USAAF flier who flew over Burma, probably as part of the joint Allied forces under Wingate.

Tim Simmons · 14th June 2005, 08:51 PM

If I had not got so interested in ethnographic items, I could have gone for MI jungle knives but in the UK anyway, they are now rather expensive, for knives which are not very old and made in the hundreds of thousand if not millions, in factories.Tim

spiral · 22nd June 2005, 02:06 AM

Possibly hundreds of thousands made, but more likely 10s of thousands given the wide aray of different machete & kukri carried & issued in Burma.

So much of the jungle issue stuff got destroyed or severly damaged by humidity as well{not to mention war.}

I wonder how many are left in existance today? 500? 1000? more? less?

Guess thats why they have a value, plus the important part they played in history.

There were hundreds of thousands of japanese swords made in ww2, many still exist as trophys get kept, {jungle choppers dont}, but the katana still raise a few pennys!

Guess its like all commerce. Supply & demand.

cheers,
Spiral {The son of a Chindit.}

Tim Simmons · 22nd June 2005, 09:05 PM

I have been meaning to add this to the thread as it is most probably from the same theatre of war as the machete and has some similarity. What would be a humble piece has been made a little bit special by the tiger jaw.I rather like this. Tim

Ian · 22nd June 2005, 09:56 PM

Thanks Tim.

Classic Kachin dao and no doubt an inspiration for the machete used during WWII by Allied troops. The tiger jaw is an uncommon decoration indicating prestige and prowess of the owner.

Does this one have a design set into the end of the hilt? The design is supposed to indicate the particular tribal group its owner belonged to.

Tim Simmons · 22nd June 2005, 10:37 PM

Hello Ian, the end of the hilt is just cut plain.I have not heard of clan markings before, they could exist, I would of thought a prestige warriors weapon would of had one. I think you all know I like African artifacts the most but this is one of my favorites. Tim

Tim Simmons · 23rd June 2005, 10:25 AM

I just thought I might add that this form of dao is used exstensively over a large area of NE Burma, for those who might not be familiar. Tim

spiral · 23rd June 2005, 11:10 AM

Interesting piece Tim, how long is the tigers canine?

Spiral

Tim Simmons · 23rd June 2005, 01:51 PM

The canine is an awesome 5cm. Big enough to give you quite a painful nip. Tim

spiral · 23rd June 2005, 11:24 PM

Intresting Tim, quite a nip indeed! Although that would be quite a baby as tigers go, adult BengalTiger teeth are normaly around 4 inches long, guess it was kitten or more likely a adult Leopard perhaps? That seems more likely. Any Veternarian dentists in the house?

Tim Simmons · 24th June 2005, 10:27 PM

Hi Spiral, I think this is the lower left hand jaw. There is a sizeable gap between the canine and the incisors, where possibly your 4'' canine could rest, but I really have no idea. I am just glad my three dogs do not have them.Tim

spiral · 26th June 2005, 10:38 PM

Thats a good point Tim! & as for your dogs having teeth like that have you ever seen the ancient Britains dogs skull dug up at Maiden castle in Dorset? It has got teeth like that!

A Scary beast for sure!

Spiral

Tim Simmons · 7th August 2005, 04:18 PM

Some interesting pictures. I do not know if these are big or small skulls for the beasts mentioned. As the piece on the weapon would appear to be quite large for a snow leopard the bengal leopard being an even smaller animal, I am going for the bengal tiger sounds better anyway Gggrrrrrr

Emanuel · 8th August 2005, 03:57 PM

Hello to all,
I hope I'm not diverging too much, but I was struck by the similarity between the scabbards of these machetes and that of this Zairian sword featured on Oriental-Arms: http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1780
I just find it interesting to see that same particular treatment at the tip of the scabbard in such different cultures.

There doesn't seem to be any specific functional need for it, so might there be some significance/symbol to it?

My apologies if this is too far of the mark and for using oriental-arms pictures.
Manolo

Tim Simmons · 8th August 2005, 06:41 PM

Hello Manolo,
I am not sure of what you mean. Are you misstaking these as an open scabbard like the dao?

Tim. I have just reread what you said and the pointed end on my example is really only a gesture.

Emanuel · 8th August 2005, 07:11 PM

Hello Tim,
I meant the bottom end of the scabbard. In all these case the scabbard ends in the same manner. I was wondering about that particular design and how machete, dao, and zairian sword all use it...
Manolo

spiral · 8th August 2005, 11:01 PM

Hi Tim!

Well the bengal tiger skin I have, {without head} is 11ft long & 8ft wide so if I stuck that skull on it it would appar very small & deformed, it appers probably the size of a great dane on average rather than the true master of the jungle!

so guess the pix you show are from a young, specimien?

must admit most of the skulls & teeth I have seen where probably trophy specimiens , & obviously kittens {is that the correct term?} & runts existed side by side, {well teritorialy not , I suppose actuly?}

I notice the bone devolopment on your specimen above front teeth appears different from , either the tiger or snow leopard, looks decidly stiff upper lip, with depth before the nostril point?

I am fascinated by these teeth, bone & wonder what a zoo veternarian could impart in factual knowledge to us?

Any zoos near you?

Spiral

11th June 2005, 08:37 PM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,207	Chindit machete (?) This one finished recently on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6537089740 It looks very much like a British Dah Mk. 3 machete (1944) that was used in some of the Burma campaigns of WWII. In particular, the leather sheath is typical for that machete. The hilt on this example is far better than standard issue, and resembles the one found on the British Dah Mk. 2. A while back I received an email from an elderly British man who had served in Wingate's Chindit force, who told me that an example I had posted several years ago in the Old Forum was actually a Chindit machete. These had been made in India and were fitted with the older Mk. 2 style of hilt. In the example linked above, the hilt shown is of the same general style as the Dah Mk. 2 but much fancier and done in a Burmese manner -- obviously a replacement, but an old one. A rare and unusual military machete. Alas, I was outbid for this item. Hopefully, the winner knows what he has and maybe would share some more pictures here. I posted pictures of my example in the Old Forum on this thread Mystery Chopper/Machete. Carter Rila correctly identified the machete at that time. Here are some details on the Chindits and their leader, Major General Wingate. "The Chindits were the largest of the allied Special Forces of the 2nd World War. They were formed and lead by Major General Orde Wingate DSO. The Chindits operated deep behind enemy lines in North Burma in the War against Japan. For many months they lived in and fought the enemy in the jungles of Japanese occupied Burma, totally relying on airdrops for their supplies. There were two Chindits expeditions into Burma, the first in February 1943 Operation Longcloth, consisted of a force of 3,000 men who marched over 1,000 miles during the campaign. The second expedition, Operation Thursday, in March 1944 was on a much larger scale. It was the second largest airborne invasion of the war and consisted of a force of 20,000 British and Commonwealth soldiers with air support provided by the 1st Air Commando USAAF. Tragically their leader, General Wingate, was killed a few weeks after the launch of Operation Thursday." Quoted from Chindits Special Force Burma 1942-1944, http://www.chindits.info/

14th June 2005, 08:17 PM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,207	Another one Just finished on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6533243358 This is a typical example of a standard Chindit machete. It is unusual to see one coming out of the US (more commonly from Britain) but this one is provenanced to a WWII USAAF flier who flew over Burma, probably as part of the joint Allied forces under Wingate.

14th June 2005, 08:51 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	If I had not got so interested in ethnographic items, I could have gone for MI jungle knives but in the UK anyway, they are now rather expensive, for knives which are not very old and made in the hundreds of thousand if not millions, in factories.Tim Last edited by Tim Simmons; 14th June 2005 at 09:20 PM.

22nd June 2005, 09:05 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I have been meaning to add this to the thread as it is most probably from the same theatre of war as the machete and has some similarity. What would be a humble piece has been made a little bit special by the tiger jaw.I rather like this. Tim Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 22nd June 2005 at 09:33 PM.

7th August 2005, 04:18 PM	#17
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	skulls Some interesting pictures. I do not know if these are big or small skulls for the beasts mentioned. As the piece on the weapon would appear to be quite large for a snow leopard the bengal leopard being an even smaller animal, I am going for the bengal tiger sounds better anyway Gggrrrrrr Attached Images

11th June 2005, 08:46 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Hello Ian, I saw this but knew it would be too expensive as an add on to my collection.

12th June 2005, 02:43 AM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,207	Hi Tim. Do you have examples of this machete? Ian.

12th June 2005, 10:12 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Hello Ian, I have not come across one of these military issue dha/dao from my usual searches.I only have one native model.Tim

22nd June 2005, 02:06 AM	#7
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Possibly hundreds of thousands made, but more likely 10s of thousands given the wide aray of different machete & kukri carried & issued in Burma. So much of the jungle issue stuff got destroyed or severly damaged by humidity as well{not to mention war.} I wonder how many are left in existance today? 500? 1000? more? less? Guess thats why they have a value, plus the important part they played in history. There were hundreds of thousands of japanese swords made in ww2, many still exist as trophys get kept, {jungle choppers dont}, but the katana still raise a few pennys! Guess its like all commerce. Supply & demand. cheers, Spiral {The son of a Chindit.}

22nd June 2005, 09:56 PM	#9
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,207	Thanks Tim. Classic Kachin dao and no doubt an inspiration for the machete used during WWII by Allied troops. The tiger jaw is an uncommon decoration indicating prestige and prowess of the owner. Does this one have a design set into the end of the hilt? The design is supposed to indicate the particular tribal group its owner belonged to.

22nd June 2005, 10:37 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Hello Ian, the end of the hilt is just cut plain.I have not heard of clan markings before, they could exist, I would of thought a prestige warriors weapon would of had one. I think you all know I like African artifacts the most but this is one of my favorites. Tim

23rd June 2005, 10:25 AM	#11
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I just thought I might add that this form of dao is used exstensively over a large area of NE Burma, for those who might not be familiar. Tim

23rd June 2005, 11:10 AM	#12
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Interesting piece Tim, how long is the tigers canine? Spiral

23rd June 2005, 01:51 PM	#13
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	The canine is an awesome 5cm. Big enough to give you quite a painful nip. Tim

23rd June 2005, 11:24 PM	#14
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Intresting Tim, quite a nip indeed! Although that would be quite a baby as tigers go, adult BengalTiger teeth are normaly around 4 inches long, guess it was kitten or more likely a adult Leopard perhaps? That seems more likely. Any Veternarian dentists in the house?

24th June 2005, 10:27 PM	#15
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Hi Spiral, I think this is the lower left hand jaw. There is a sizeable gap between the canine and the incisors, where possibly your 4'' canine could rest, but I really have no idea. I am just glad my three dogs do not have them.Tim

26th June 2005, 10:38 PM	#16
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Thats a good point Tim! & as for your dogs having teeth like that have you ever seen the ancient Britains dogs skull dug up at Maiden castle in Dorset? It has got teeth like that! A Scary beast for sure! Spiral

8th August 2005, 03:57 PM	#18
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hello to all, I hope I'm not diverging too much, but I was struck by the similarity between the scabbards of these machetes and that of this Zairian sword featured on Oriental-Arms: http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1780 I just find it interesting to see that same particular treatment at the tip of the scabbard in such different cultures. There doesn't seem to be any specific functional need for it, so might there be some significance/symbol to it? My apologies if this is too far of the mark and for using oriental-arms pictures. Manolo

8th August 2005, 06:41 PM	#19
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Hello Manolo, I am not sure of what you mean. Are you misstaking these as an open scabbard like the dao? Tim. I have just reread what you said and the pointed end on my example is really only a gesture. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 8th August 2005 at 06:47 PM. Reason: reading more carefully

8th August 2005, 07:11 PM	#20
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hello Tim, I meant the bottom end of the scabbard. In all these case the scabbard ends in the same manner. I was wondering about that particular design and how machete, dao, and zairian sword all use it... Manolo Attached Images

8th August 2005, 11:01 PM	#21
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Hi Tim! Well the bengal tiger skin I have, {without head} is 11ft long & 8ft wide so if I stuck that skull on it it would appar very small & deformed, it appers probably the size of a great dane on average rather than the true master of the jungle! so guess the pix you show are from a young, specimien? must admit most of the skulls & teeth I have seen where probably trophy specimiens , & obviously kittens {is that the correct term?} & runts existed side by side, {well teritorialy not , I suppose actuly?} I notice the bone devolopment on your specimen above front teeth appears different from , either the tiger or snow leopard, looks decidly stiff upper lip, with depth before the nostril point? I am fascinated by these teeth, bone & wonder what a zoo veternarian could impart in factual knowledge to us? Any zoos near you? Spiral