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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,242
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Hello
Following my new interest in sword collecting and passion for their history, I've encountered this particular blade identified as a Touareg sabre. It is curved and not a takouba, so what is it? I've seen another similar blade but with a very thick jambiya hilt uncharacteristic of touareg/morrocan/algerian swords. Any ideas on its name and origin? Thanks Manolo Last edited by Manolo; 15th July 2005 at 05:37 PM. |
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#2 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,209
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I doubt it is touareg at all. I'm afraid it is very new and made for the tourist market.
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#3 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,242
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Agreed, it most certainly looks kich, but I'm wondering whether it has any historical precedence. The crescent decorations on the blade would indicate a muslim/northern african model.
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#4 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,137
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I have several of these that were brought back from Ghana and Cote D'ivoire. They are new and sold inexpensively to the tourist trade.
Ian. |
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#5 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,242
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That solves that question then, thanks.
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#6 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,868
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Hi Manolo,
Although it has been agreed that your example is a tourist trade item, I am very impressed that you are seeking information on what particular weapon or culture would have influenced its style and decoration. This is what the study of ethnographic edged weapons is all about and I just wanted to reinforce that since you are just beginning the obsession ![]() Tourist items however offer great difficulty in such sincere study as they are typically composites of various weapon types not necessarily connected and often reach nearly fantasy level, intended for dramatic effect. Nicely placed question! Best regards, Jim |
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#7 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,282
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By the way Manolo , did you purchase that keris you inquired about ?
I thought that it was a fairly nice example from what I could see in the pictures . |
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#8 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,242
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Hello Jim,
It is quite fascinating to see the evolutions of all these blades. The variety is staggering and makes me wonder just how much time and money i'll spend from now on building up a decent collection. These weapons have been so important in shaping history that they embody a lot about the cultures that created them. It's wonderful learning all this. Rick about that keris auction - that I had unwittingly posted while live - no, I didn't get to purchase it. First reason was that I just started playing the ebay market and I had a good bit to learn about successful auctions. Secondly I was unsure of its authenticity. I thought I'd wait until I'd read Stone's Glossary...and learn more - still haven't received it. Incidentally, my question at the time was whether the orientation of the pommel in regards to the gangya of the keris is of any significance, be it as a sign of authenticity, cultural differentiation or simply functional consideration. I recently did purchase a different keris: http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...tem=7335199915 It'll be a while before I receive it. Thanks for the encouragement Manolo |
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#9 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,282
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Hi Manolo , as you are new at this I would strongly suggest you spend your next few hundred dollars on books . These are really the key to becoming an astute collector and being able to assemble a worthwhile collection .
As for keris I would suggest you read these two rather long but very informative threads from our old UBB format forum . http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000307.html http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000402.html A copy of Stone's is a good first building block ; this book has been recently republished by Dover Press and you may be able to find a copy at either Amazon or Abebooks.com . There is also a wealth of information to be found using the search function on both this and the old forum . |
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#10 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,209
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Manolo,
Unfortunately Rick is a little bit very right. You'd better spent your money on some good books about keris or other weapons. Even then it is hard to recognize the authenticity of a weapon. As a beginning collector you certainly will make some mistakes, like we all did. This keris you bought is a cheap tourist keris representing a keris from madura. The scabbard and ukiran are newly made and the snakehead on the wrangka is complete fantasy. On a real authentic keris you will never see it in this way. The blade itself is made in mass production with some kind of imitation pamor and a very rudely made naga with brass inlay. ![]() Today new kerisses are still made on the traditional way. If you can buy such a keris you may have a brandnew keris, but it is at least a good and well made keris. My advice to you is to keep this keris a while and compare it with some real and good keris. The traditional new ones and the real old and antique ones. That's the best way to learn. To hold it in your hands and to see the differences. When you put up a small collection you have two options. Resell this keris and maybe you have to take some loss or profit when you're lucky. Or you can keep this keris in your collection as an example of the mistake we all once made. Somewhere deep hidden in the catacombs of my house, where nobody comes, you can find my mistake ![]() |
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#11 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,242
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Hello Rick
I understand the wisdom of your words ![]() My thanks for all your help in joining this world of blades. Manolo |
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#12 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,242
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Henk
I was thinking that this would very well be a tourist piece. Nonetheless, it will still be a valuable learning experience. Until I walk through that part of the world and see the good traditional work I will contend myself with books and with whatever cheap pieces on ebay my current limited budget may afford ![]() In time I'll know enougth to fully appreciate these cultural marvels and to build a solid collection. - I think I'll still keep the fake ![]() Regards Manolo |
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