Pamur? Dapur? Origins?

kino · 21st March 2007, 02:48 AM

Need help in ID'ing this Keris.
Dimensions OAL 18", blade 14.75"
There seem to be a thin copper sheet sandwiched between the ganja and the blade and also in the ganja itself. There's a piece missing from the hilt.
Is it Sumatran?
Thankx.

David · 21st March 2007, 04:16 AM

Yes, it is Sumatran, Palembang i'd say, and a sweet one at that. It looks like scattered rice to me. The execution is beatiful. It looks there there was once kinatah on the gandik and the top of the gonjo. Nice repousse work on what appears to be a silver selut. is the hulu ivory?

Alam Shah · 21st March 2007, 04:18 AM

Hi Kino,

Yes, it's seems to be from Palembang, Sumatra. The sheath's cross-piece is typical Palembang but the shaft (batang,gandar) seems a bit too big for the sheath joint. The brass piece is probably to strengthen the repaired joint.

The blade is pretty nice. The picture of the blade is too shiny. Difficult to try IDing the pamor type. Better picture might help.

The sumatran selut, (a nicely made piece), seems a bit oversized for the hilt. For the hilt, the beak-like portion is missing. See here, [ BluErf's example ] for comparison.

As for the dapur and pamor, I hope others can assist soon.

David · 21st March 2007, 04:25 AM

It would be nice to see it in stain. I would like ti see more pictures of the hilt. You are probably right about the beak Shahrial, but it would help to see better pictures. The selut might be a bit oversized, but i wouldn't complain.

Looks like a keris well worth having.

kino · 21st March 2007, 04:56 AM

Thanks for the lesson, David and Alam Shah.
I see what you mean by the selut being a little oversized. The selut is rose colored, somewhat coppery, not silver. From what I can tell, the Hulu is wood.
Yes the beak has broken off.
I will take more photos tomorrow.

Alam Shah · 21st March 2007, 05:02 AM

David, I see we were writing about the same time, but you posted first.

For the pamor, my first impression was Beras Wutah (scattered rice) as well, but I would like to confirm with better pictures.

Kino, I believe the thin copper sheet (visible from picture 3), are remnants of kinatah works. Like you mentioned, it can be seen on the ganja and on the underside of the kembang kacang.

David, I'm not complaining either, just stating my observation.

David · 21st March 2007, 05:08 AM

Same about the beak. Still not the end of the world and you could swap it out if you felt like it. The selut does look more silvery on the screen. That's the problem with pics on the internet. Could the it be suaasa? Wouldn't be too unusual given there was once gold on the blade.

kino · 23rd March 2007, 02:36 AM

Here are some additonal photos.

David · 23rd March 2007, 03:06 AM

Thanks for the better pics Kino. Yeah, it's a real shame about the hilt. In the new pics it shows many nice details and subtlies.
I would also stick to the Beras Wutah (scattered rice) assessment given the new pics.
No worries Shahrial, i know you're not complaining. Great minds think alike, eh?

Newsteel · 23rd March 2007, 05:15 AM

Kino, I found the blade really nice. It is a good Palembang blade (personnally). Palembang is within Sumatra. Blade have 11 luks (curves), but not sure what dapur is this. Pamor is beras wutah or wos wutah (scattered rice) variations. Possibility there was once kinatah at the gandik area, could be gold or tembaga or suasa. Or maybe gilded material.

I agree about the oversize selut. However, the silver selut is beautiful. The hilt (beak was broken) but I believe you can find a good replacement. If you can etch the blade with warangan, it would be eye pleasing to watch and admire (I thought so).

21st March 2007, 02:48 AM	#1
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Pamur? Dapur? Origins? Need help in ID'ing this Keris. Dimensions OAL 18", blade 14.75" There seem to be a thin copper sheet sandwiched between the ganja and the blade and also in the ganja itself. There's a piece missing from the hilt. Is it Sumatran? Thankx. Attached Images Last edited by kino; 21st March 2007 at 04:31 AM.

21st March 2007, 04:16 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,121	Sweet! Yes, it is Sumatran, Palembang i'd say, and a sweet one at that. It looks like scattered rice to me. The execution is beatiful. It looks there there was once kinatah on the gandik and the top of the gonjo. Nice repousse work on what appears to be a silver selut. is the hulu ivory?

21st March 2007, 04:18 AM	#3
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Hi Kino, Yes, it's seems to be from Palembang, Sumatra. The sheath's cross-piece is typical Palembang but the shaft (batang,gandar) seems a bit too big for the sheath joint. The brass piece is probably to strengthen the repaired joint. The blade is pretty nice. The picture of the blade is too shiny. Difficult to try IDing the pamor type. Better picture might help. The sumatran selut, (a nicely made piece), seems a bit oversized for the hilt. For the hilt, the beak-like portion is missing. See here, [ BluErf's example ] for comparison. As for the dapur and pamor, I hope others can assist soon. Last edited by Alam Shah; 21st March 2007 at 05:04 AM. Reason: spelling

21st March 2007, 05:02 AM	#6
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	David, I see we were writing about the same time, but you posted first. For the pamor, my first impression was Beras Wutah (scattered rice) as well, but I would like to confirm with better pictures. Kino, I believe the thin copper sheet (visible from picture 3), are remnants of kinatah works. Like you mentioned, it can be seen on the ganja and on the underside of the kembang kacang. David, I'm not complaining either, just stating my observation. Last edited by Alam Shah; 21st March 2007 at 08:44 AM. Reason: spelling

23rd March 2007, 02:36 AM	#8
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Here are some additonal photos. Attached Images

21st March 2007, 04:25 AM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,121	It would be nice to see it in stain. I would like ti see more pictures of the hilt. You are probably right about the beak Shahrial, but it would help to see better pictures. The selut might be a bit oversized, but i wouldn't complain. Looks like a keris well worth having.

21st March 2007, 04:56 AM	#5
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Thanks for the lesson, David and Alam Shah. I see what you mean by the selut being a little oversized. The selut is rose colored, somewhat coppery, not silver. From what I can tell, the Hulu is wood. Yes the beak has broken off. I will take more photos tomorrow.

21st March 2007, 05:08 AM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,121	Same about the beak. Still not the end of the world and you could swap it out if you felt like it. The selut does look more silvery on the screen. That's the problem with pics on the internet. Could the it be suaasa? Wouldn't be too unusual given there was once gold on the blade.

23rd March 2007, 03:06 AM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,121	Thanks for the better pics Kino. Yeah, it's a real shame about the hilt. In the new pics it shows many nice details and subtlies. I would also stick to the Beras Wutah (scattered rice) assessment given the new pics. No worries Shahrial, i know you're not complaining. Great minds think alike, eh?

23rd March 2007, 05:15 AM	#10
Newsteel Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 132	Kino, I found the blade really nice. It is a good Palembang blade (personnally). Palembang is within Sumatra. Blade have 11 luks (curves), but not sure what dapur is this. Pamor is beras wutah or wos wutah (scattered rice) variations. Possibility there was once kinatah at the gandik area, could be gold or tembaga or suasa. Or maybe gilded material. I agree about the oversize selut. However, the silver selut is beautiful. The hilt (beak was broken) but I believe you can find a good replacement. If you can etch the blade with warangan, it would be eye pleasing to watch and admire (I thought so).