Persian shamshir in need of restoration

MARW · 1st January 2024, 01:12 AM

Hi everyone. I got a persian shamshir with an Assadullah mark not so long ago. The shamshir was in a terrible state and hence got it at a bargain price.

I intended to restore it and couldn't resist opening it up since there was a lot of active rust on the tang and inside the guard.

So far I have cleaned the blade, removed much of the active rust, and found that perhaps it was historically repaired before (the tang bands are welded).

Can you guys suggest some further steps? especially I am missing the pommel cap. Is there some way to source an antique one or someone might have one laying around and would like to sell?

I have tried etching it with coffee and it turns extremely dark but without any pattern.

Ian · 1st January 2024, 05:22 AM

Hi MARW,

Welcome to the Forum! I like the curve of that blade style, which always looks so clean and classical to me. As far as the hilt goes, there are modern reproductions that find their way online. I can't provide a link but others here may have one for you. You would need to custom fit an off-the-shelf piece.

As far as the lack of pattern in the blade, it may be a laminated blade with poor contrast between the laminations, or it might still be wootz. I would try a variety of etchants to see if you can bring out anything. Vinegar is quite good, so is lemon juice, and there is always ferric chloride. I would start dilute and work up. There are helpful comments on these pages if you search for "etching." The coffee seemed to provide an overwhelming color change.

Gavin Nugent · 1st January 2024, 05:35 AM

Great to see it being restored. Once a fine warrior.

I wish I had of seen this a few days ago, a more appropriate pair of suspension loops passed by at auction, they would have been much nicer choices for a restoration project.

There are some good restorers within these pages too and much advice within the pages too as Ian has noted.

Personally, and only from the photos, I'd be putting a little more love in to the surfaces before concerning yourself too much with etching.

Right or wrong in the eyes of many, and not available to everyone, I prefer a diluted sulphuric acid tank dip, Bicarb neutralize, wash and oil... a dangerous product to work with but to great effect.

MARW · 1st January 2024, 06:18 AM

Thanks, Gavin and Ian. I pasted Renaissance de-corodder and then brushed it with a brass brush. The rust is gone and the pits are clean. I later used very fine sandpaper. My concern is a) not to damage the Asadullah cartouche and b) not to change the geometry of the blade.

The biggest difficulty is finding an antique pommel cap. I have had someone offer to make one from scratch that looks extremely accurate but it's too expensive. So I prefer an antique spare one.

I have two pommel caps from LK Chen shamshir arriving, but it would be sad to put newly made ones (even after finishing and patination).

The attached photo is the result after dip in instant coffee, no pattern at all.

Drabant1701 · 1st January 2024, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MARW

Hi everyone. I got a persian shamshir with an Assadullah mark not so long ago. The shamshir was in a terrible state and hence got it at a bargain price.

I intended to restore it and couldn't resist opening it up since there was a lot of active rust on the tang and inside the guard.

So far I have cleaned the blade, removed much of the active rust, and found that perhaps it was historically repaired before (the tang bands are welded).

Can you guys suggest some further steps? especially I am missing the pommel cap. Is there some way to source an antique one or someone might have one laying around and would like to sell?

I have tried etching it with coffee and it turns extremely dark but without any pattern.

In my experience instant coffe only etches laminated blades. Yours is most likely wootz. As mentioned earlier lemon, vinager, ferric chloride and sulphuric acid are ways to etch wootz blades. I find lemon good if you just want to check if something is wootz. When I etch whole swords I use ferric chloride since I don not have acsess to sulphuric acid. Getting a good etch with ferric chloride is hard, I usually etch very dark and then polish it to near mirror finish. As previosly stated you should put some more work on the blade before etching. I use a 800-1200 sand paper and hand polish until I have a mirror finish on the surfaces not pitted.

I have one wootz blade that is pitted like the one you have and its is very har getting a nice etch on it, I would probably just leave that one as is if it was mine. As for the pommel cap, I once had the same problem, a persian sword with missing pommel cap. I never manage to find antique replacement and newly made ones from india did not look good. Best option is probably have a craftsman make you a one, it is expensive but it would do the sword most justice.

Anyway, a very nice sword, I really like the crossguard.

1st January 2024, 01:12 AM	#1
MARW Member Join Date: Dec 2023 Posts: 10	Persian shamshir in need of restoration Hi everyone. I got a persian shamshir with an Assadullah mark not so long ago. The shamshir was in a terrible state and hence got it at a bargain price. I intended to restore it and couldn't resist opening it up since there was a lot of active rust on the tang and inside the guard. So far I have cleaned the blade, removed much of the active rust, and found that perhaps it was historically repaired before (the tang bands are welded). Can you guys suggest some further steps? especially I am missing the pommel cap. Is there some way to source an antique one or someone might have one laying around and would like to sell? I have tried etching it with coffee and it turns extremely dark but without any pattern. Attached Images

1st January 2024, 06:18 AM	#4
MARW Member Join Date: Dec 2023 Posts: 10	Thanks, Gavin and Ian. I pasted Renaissance de-corodder and then brushed it with a brass brush. The rust is gone and the pits are clean. I later used very fine sandpaper. My concern is a) not to damage the Asadullah cartouche and b) not to change the geometry of the blade. The biggest difficulty is finding an antique pommel cap. I have had someone offer to make one from scratch that looks extremely accurate but it's too expensive. So I prefer an antique spare one. I have two pommel caps from LK Chen shamshir arriving, but it would be sad to put newly made ones (even after finishing and patination). The attached photo is the result after dip in instant coffee, no pattern at all. Attached Images

1st January 2024, 05:22 AM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Hi MARW, Welcome to the Forum! I like the curve of that blade style, which always looks so clean and classical to me. As far as the hilt goes, there are modern reproductions that find their way online. I can't provide a link but others here may have one for you. You would need to custom fit an off-the-shelf piece. As far as the lack of pattern in the blade, it may be a laminated blade with poor contrast between the laminations, or it might still be wootz. I would try a variety of etchants to see if you can bring out anything. Vinegar is quite good, so is lemon juice, and there is always ferric chloride. I would start dilute and work up. There are helpful comments on these pages if you search for "etching." The coffee seemed to provide an overwhelming color change.

1st January 2024, 05:35 AM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Great to see it being restored. Once a fine warrior. I wish I had of seen this a few days ago, a more appropriate pair of suspension loops passed by at auction, they would have been much nicer choices for a restoration project. There are some good restorers within these pages too and much advice within the pages too as Ian has noted. Personally, and only from the photos, I'd be putting a little more love in to the surfaces before concerning yourself too much with etching. Right or wrong in the eyes of many, and not available to everyone, I prefer a diluted sulphuric acid tank dip, Bicarb neutralize, wash and oil... a dangerous product to work with but to great effect.