VARIOUS NATIVE AMERICAN KNIVES.

VANDOO · 22nd August 2014, 11:11 PM

I HAVE PICTURES OF VARIOUS NATIVE AMERICAN KNIVES REPRESENTING SEVERAL TRIBES. I CAN NOT VOUCH FOR THE ACCURACY OF THE AGE OR INFORMATION WITH THE PICTURES, THE INFO CAME WITH THE PICTURES. PERHAPS THEY CAN MAKE A ROUGH REFERENCE OR AT LEAST SOMETHING INTERESTING TO LOOK AT AND PERHAPS THOSE WITH MORE INFORMATION AND OTHER EXAMPLES WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT OR ADD SOME MORE EXAMPLES.
#1 & #2. 13 INCHES LONG BONE HANDLE
# 3 BLACKFOOT KNIFE
#4. CENTRAL PLAINS TRADE KNIFE
#5 CHEYENNE BEADED KNIFE
#6 CREE SHEATH KNIFE
#7. ESKIMO KNIVES
#8 ESKIMO SNOW KNIVES AND BEATER
#9 NATIVE AMERICAN KNIFE 1
# 10 NATIVE AMERICAN KNIFE 2
# 11. NATIVE AMERICAN KNIFE 3
#12 NORTH WEST COAST DAGGER

Battara · 24th August 2014, 12:33 AM

Most of these daggers are European-American traded to the Native tribes. Some are known as "American Indian Trade Knives" made for and traded to Native Americans.

The copper ones I have not seen before. Wado and palamiya Barry! (thanks in Cherokee and Lakota).

VANDOO · 28th August 2014, 07:26 PM

A FEW MORE #1. YUMA WARRIOR, WITH KNIFE
#2. SIOUX KNIFE AND SHEATH
#3 & #4. SIOUX BEADED KNIFE SHEATHS
#5. SANTEE SIOUX KNIFE
# 6. OLD PLATE NATIVE AMERICAN, SOME KNIVES
#7. WEST COAST KNIFE, 10 INCH BLADE.
#8. OLD FRONTIER DAGGER
#9. AFRICAN DAGGER, BEADED SHEATH.

Sajen · 29th August 2014, 12:22 PM

Another Tlingit dagger with the same provenance like the one shown in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=tlingit, recently sold by ebay, 15" long.

blue lander · 29th August 2014, 03:24 PM

Some of those look like the Old Hickory knives I use for barbecuing with some slight reprofiling. That's probably exactly what they are.

mross · 29th August 2014, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue lander

Some of those look like the Old Hickory knives I use for barbecuing with some slight reprofiling. That's probably exactly what they are.

Would not doubt that. Native American is a hot collector area. Lot's of questionable "artifacts". As to the design Old Hickory designs are very close to the trade knives as it is a tried and true design. Depending on who you ask the first Bowie knife resembled a butcher knife more than the currently popular one.
Did the Native Americans work steel? I think the vast amount of their steel was trade. The tomahawk I believe is originally French. I do not ever remeber seeing any photos or documentation of steel forgeing among them

VANDOO · 29th August 2014, 06:08 PM

I IMAGINE THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE KNIVES CARRIED BY NATIVE AMERICANS WERE NOTHING MORE THAN COMMON BUTCHER KNIVES. PERHAPS THE CHIEFS OF SOME TRIBES OR SCOUTS WORKING FOR TRADERS OR THE ARMY MAY HAVE HAD FANCIER KNIVES. THE COMMON MAJORITY WOULD NOT HAVE HAD LOTS OF TRADE GOODS OR MONEY AND WOULD NOT HAVE RECEIVED EXPENSIVE GIFTS OR TRADE ITEMS SO WOULD HAVE HAD SIMPLE COMMON KNIVES. MOST COLLECTORS PREFER THE FANCY KNIVES AND BOWIE S OVER SUCH KNIVES AND ONLY A NATIVE MADE SHEATH OR HANDLE MAKES THESE KNIVES ETHNOGRAPHIC TO THE TRIBES. OFTEN WE SEE SCABBARDS WITH NO KNIFE FOR SALE BUT SELDOM A BUTCHER KNIFE WITHOUT A SHEATH SOLD AS A INDIAN KNIFE THOUGH THEY ARE OUT THERE.
I DON'T COLLECT IN THIS FIELD BECAUSE THERE ARE TOO MANY MORE RECENT ANTIQUES MADE BUT SOLD FOR THE HIGH PRICE OF GOOD ORIGINALS SOME ARE EVEN ANTIQUE IN THEIR OWN RIGHT BY NOW. IT WOULD TAKE A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE I DON'T HAVE TO KNOW FOR SURE EVEN WITH THE ITEM IN HAND.

trenchwarfare · 29th August 2014, 08:13 PM

Pictures one and two of the first set are of a typical "Trade Dag" of the fur trade era. After 1850, the knife in photo #3 would be more commonly encountered. Typical butcher knife of the period. Note the multiple pinned handle scales. #4, is hard to tell, as the handle is covered. Knife in photo #6 is most likely post 1940. Hard to tell, without looking at the butt-end of the tang. Before 1939, blades were forged all the way, and the end of the tang, will have the same taper as the blade. After '39, blades were blanked out of a sheet of steel, and then, the edge bevel was formed. "Old Forge", is a trade name used by Case Cutlery, to this day.

In the second set of photos, #5, is made from a sword blade tip. #6 belongs to me, and has yet to be definitely identified. With the "Thunderbird" head pommel, and abalone eyes, I feel that it is Native American. My thought is, that the blade is an old Spanish lance point, reclaimed, and recycled into a knife. Machetes were also commonly traded, but you never see any evidence of such. I've seen only one photo of a trade machete. Maybe, they were broken up to make several knives, and arrow/spear heads?

22nd August 2014, 11:11 PM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	VARIOUS NATIVE AMERICAN KNIVES. I HAVE PICTURES OF VARIOUS NATIVE AMERICAN KNIVES REPRESENTING SEVERAL TRIBES. I CAN NOT VOUCH FOR THE ACCURACY OF THE AGE OR INFORMATION WITH THE PICTURES, THE INFO CAME WITH THE PICTURES. PERHAPS THEY CAN MAKE A ROUGH REFERENCE OR AT LEAST SOMETHING INTERESTING TO LOOK AT AND PERHAPS THOSE WITH MORE INFORMATION AND OTHER EXAMPLES WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT OR ADD SOME MORE EXAMPLES. #1 & #2. 13 INCHES LONG BONE HANDLE # 3 BLACKFOOT KNIFE #4. CENTRAL PLAINS TRADE KNIFE #5 CHEYENNE BEADED KNIFE #6 CREE SHEATH KNIFE #7. ESKIMO KNIVES #8 ESKIMO SNOW KNIVES AND BEATER #9 NATIVE AMERICAN KNIFE 1 # 10 NATIVE AMERICAN KNIFE 2 # 11. NATIVE AMERICAN KNIFE 3 #12 NORTH WEST COAST DAGGER Attached Images

24th August 2014, 12:33 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,225	Most of these daggers are European-American traded to the Native tribes. Some are known as "American Indian Trade Knives" made for and traded to Native Americans. The copper ones I have not seen before. Wado and palamiya Barry! (thanks in Cherokee and Lakota).

28th August 2014, 07:26 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A FEW MORE #1. YUMA WARRIOR, WITH KNIFE #2. SIOUX KNIFE AND SHEATH #3 & #4. SIOUX BEADED KNIFE SHEATHS #5. SANTEE SIOUX KNIFE # 6. OLD PLATE NATIVE AMERICAN, SOME KNIVES #7. WEST COAST KNIFE, 10 INCH BLADE. #8. OLD FRONTIER DAGGER #9. AFRICAN DAGGER, BEADED SHEATH. Attached Images

29th August 2014, 12:22 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Another Tlingit dagger with the same provenance like the one shown in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=tlingit, recently sold by ebay, 15" long. Attached Images

29th August 2014, 03:24 PM	#5
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Some of those look like the Old Hickory knives I use for barbecuing with some slight reprofiling. That's probably exactly what they are.

29th August 2014, 06:08 PM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I IMAGINE THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE KNIVES CARRIED BY NATIVE AMERICANS WERE NOTHING MORE THAN COMMON BUTCHER KNIVES. PERHAPS THE CHIEFS OF SOME TRIBES OR SCOUTS WORKING FOR TRADERS OR THE ARMY MAY HAVE HAD FANCIER KNIVES. THE COMMON MAJORITY WOULD NOT HAVE HAD LOTS OF TRADE GOODS OR MONEY AND WOULD NOT HAVE RECEIVED EXPENSIVE GIFTS OR TRADE ITEMS SO WOULD HAVE HAD SIMPLE COMMON KNIVES. MOST COLLECTORS PREFER THE FANCY KNIVES AND BOWIE S OVER SUCH KNIVES AND ONLY A NATIVE MADE SHEATH OR HANDLE MAKES THESE KNIVES ETHNOGRAPHIC TO THE TRIBES. OFTEN WE SEE SCABBARDS WITH NO KNIFE FOR SALE BUT SELDOM A BUTCHER KNIFE WITHOUT A SHEATH SOLD AS A INDIAN KNIFE THOUGH THEY ARE OUT THERE. I DON'T COLLECT IN THIS FIELD BECAUSE THERE ARE TOO MANY MORE RECENT ANTIQUES MADE BUT SOLD FOR THE HIGH PRICE OF GOOD ORIGINALS SOME ARE EVEN ANTIQUE IN THEIR OWN RIGHT BY NOW. IT WOULD TAKE A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE I DON'T HAVE TO KNOW FOR SURE EVEN WITH THE ITEM IN HAND.

29th August 2014, 08:13 PM	#8
trenchwarfare Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 385	Pictures one and two of the first set are of a typical "Trade Dag" of the fur trade era. After 1850, the knife in photo #3 would be more commonly encountered. Typical butcher knife of the period. Note the multiple pinned handle scales. #4, is hard to tell, as the handle is covered. Knife in photo #6 is most likely post 1940. Hard to tell, without looking at the butt-end of the tang. Before 1939, blades were forged all the way, and the end of the tang, will have the same taper as the blade. After '39, blades were blanked out of a sheet of steel, and then, the edge bevel was formed. "Old Forge", is a trade name used by Case Cutlery, to this day. In the second set of photos, #5, is made from a sword blade tip. #6 belongs to me, and has yet to be definitely identified. With the "Thunderbird" head pommel, and abalone eyes, I feel that it is Native American. My thought is, that the blade is an old Spanish lance point, reclaimed, and recycled into a knife. Machetes were also commonly traded, but you never see any evidence of such. I've seen only one photo of a trade machete. Maybe, they were broken up to make several knives, and arrow/spear heads?