Sword Find In Sweden

Rick · 5th October 2018, 02:15 AM

https://jonkopingslansmuseum.se/nyhe...rnalderssvard/

Translation is found in the banner above the article.

Pukka Bundook · 5th October 2018, 02:56 AM

Hi Rick,

It looks Viking Age to me.
May (With a capital M!) have been a votive offering. All sorts of things were chucked into lakes and pools. Cooking pots were very common and anything else of value.
Mind, the museum will know that already!

Rich.

shayde78 · 5th October 2018, 03:42 AM

Would a votive offering have included a leather scabbard?

Pukka Bundook · 5th October 2018, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shayde78

Would a votive offering have included a leather scabbard?

Good morning Shayde,

I don't see why not. an awful lot of horse harness was cast into waters as votive offerings, so don't think a sword and scabbard would be out of place.
Mind, some weapons were broken before being given, so I am not saying that this example Was a votive gift, just a possibility.
I suppose we can think up all kinds of scenarios as to how it was lost, if lost it was, from boats sinking... to getting ambushed... to thin ice!... We may never really know, unless some other finds in this area come to light.

Very best,
Rich.

Lee · 5th October 2018, 06:03 PM

The latest news reports are estimating the sword age as 1,500 years or Vendel Period (Migration Period in English) and the form of the upper guard and pommel appears consistent with this to the extent the encrustation and pictures allow and they also had the benefit of an associated brooch part.

Image from Jönköpings läns museum's website:

shayde78 · 6th October 2018, 02:22 AM

All other considerations aside...the girl who found this has a valid claim to be made queen!

M ELEY · 6th October 2018, 04:52 AM

As given to her by the Lady of the Lake...

Jim McDougall · 9th October 2018, 04:52 PM

With these kinds of sword finds, I always hope for further discussion as to better classification and period to join with the sound provenance of its location of discovery. The speculations as to how it came to be in this location where it has obviously remained for over a thousand years might become a bit more plausible using such information.

The news feed on this discovery is collectively vapid, with the only descriptive comments vaguely referring to a museum officials speculation of age of the weapon.

After seeing the assessment here added by Lee, who knows these weapons better than most anyone else, limiting comment to what has been suggested in most of the media except for noting the proper period of the sword....I wanted to see if more could be determined.

I looked into his book, "Swords of the Viking Age" (2002) and in doing so realized just how similar all the swords of these periods looked alike with virtually only nuanced differences. With a sword encrusted in its scabbard and of such age it is unlikely to have the factors often used to better determine the classifying details needed for more accurate assessment.

In the book, actually most of the examples I looked at were of the 9th century and remarkably similar is the hilt and guard, the only viable points of reference at this point and from photos. With example WK-24 (p.56) which is noted from Ireland, 9th century, and referenced as Petersen Type H (Wheeler type II) ....in looking further other examples, also of 9th c. are listed as from France, Denmark and Iceland.
Clearly the Frankish sword producers were busily supplying swords widely or the standardization of the forms were closely integrated even to other makers and into the 9th century, with this example (from the Swedish lake) possibly somewhat earlier.

It will be interesting to see if conservation is carried out at the museum noted, and if they might add more detail in the future.

Regarding its deposit in the lake in the first place, since it was in its scabbard it seems unlikely from a battle situation. If the brooch found nearby is indeed collateral, it may be a funerary situation.

David · 9th October 2018, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shayde78

All other considerations aside...the girl who found this has a valid claim to be made queen!

"Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government." LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sprrQ1OLW6g

Victrix · 9th October 2018, 11:39 PM

Not much is currently known about the sword. Media attention was probably greater outside than inside the country.

The sword is currently with a conservator. It’s believed to be from just before the Viking age and estimated 1000-1500 years old. The brooch was found later nearby and is believed to be from 4-5thC. The sword was found in shallow water of around half a metre depth. The land is generally higher now than in viking times so it’s possible that the lake was deeper before.

silberschatzimsee · 12th October 2018, 09:34 PM

My 87 year old grandmother phoned me and asked if i have heard about that sword and mentioned it was printed with a picture.

So it got even into southeastasian news

5th October 2018, 02:15 AM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Sword Find In Sweden https://jonkopingslansmuseum.se/nyhe...rnalderssvard/ Translation is found in the banner above the article.

5th October 2018, 06:03 PM	#5
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	The latest news reports are estimating the sword age as 1,500 years or Vendel Period (Migration Period in English) and the form of the upper guard and pommel appears consistent with this to the extent the encrustation and pictures allow and they also had the benefit of an associated brooch part. Image from Jönköpings läns museum's website: Attached Images

5th October 2018, 02:56 AM	#2
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Hi Rick, It looks Viking Age to me. May (With a capital M!) have been a votive offering. All sorts of things were chucked into lakes and pools. Cooking pots were very common and anything else of value. Mind, the museum will know that already! Rich.

5th October 2018, 03:42 AM	#3
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Would a votive offering have included a leather scabbard?

6th October 2018, 02:22 AM	#6
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	All other considerations aside...the girl who found this has a valid claim to be made queen!

6th October 2018, 04:52 AM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,099	As given to her by the Lady of the Lake...

9th October 2018, 04:52 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,950	With these kinds of sword finds, I always hope for further discussion as to better classification and period to join with the sound provenance of its location of discovery. The speculations as to how it came to be in this location where it has obviously remained for over a thousand years might become a bit more plausible using such information. The news feed on this discovery is collectively vapid, with the only descriptive comments vaguely referring to a museum officials speculation of age of the weapon. After seeing the assessment here added by Lee, who knows these weapons better than most anyone else, limiting comment to what has been suggested in most of the media except for noting the proper period of the sword....I wanted to see if more could be determined. I looked into his book, "Swords of the Viking Age" (2002) and in doing so realized just how similar all the swords of these periods looked alike with virtually only nuanced differences. With a sword encrusted in its scabbard and of such age it is unlikely to have the factors often used to better determine the classifying details needed for more accurate assessment. In the book, actually most of the examples I looked at were of the 9th century and remarkably similar is the hilt and guard, the only viable points of reference at this point and from photos. With example WK-24 (p.56) which is noted from Ireland, 9th century, and referenced as Petersen Type H (Wheeler type II) ....in looking further other examples, also of 9th c. are listed as from France, Denmark and Iceland. Clearly the Frankish sword producers were busily supplying swords widely or the standardization of the forms were closely integrated even to other makers and into the 9th century, with this example (from the Swedish lake) possibly somewhat earlier. It will be interesting to see if conservation is carried out at the museum noted, and if they might add more detail in the future. Regarding its deposit in the lake in the first place, since it was in its scabbard it seems unlikely from a battle situation. If the brooch found nearby is indeed collateral, it may be a funerary situation.

9th October 2018, 11:39 PM	#10
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 712	Not much is currently known about the sword. Media attention was probably greater outside than inside the country. The sword is currently with a conservator. It’s believed to be from just before the Viking age and estimated 1000-1500 years old. The brooch was found later nearby and is believed to be from 4-5thC. The sword was found in shallow water of around half a metre depth. The land is generally higher now than in viking times so it’s possible that the lake was deeper before.

12th October 2018, 09:34 PM	#11
silberschatzimsee Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 90	My 87 year old grandmother phoned me and asked if i have heard about that sword and mentioned it was printed with a picture. So it got even into southeastasian news