C17th English Rapier Blades

[Triarii]

Hi,

I read a long thread on another forum (myarmoury.com - which seems to have an IT problem with admitting new members right now) about C17th English rapier blades.
That discussed the English rapier blade forms which seemed to exist in parallel during the first half of the C17th;

The flattened hexagon with deep fullers which often transitions to a lenticular section,
The diamond section (or square if you like) with no edges until the last section nearest the point, and
The single edged 'isosceles triangle'.

[I've also seen some with backsword blades but they weren't discussed]

The last description of isosceles triangle section blades got me thinking - I have a dish hilt with a blade like this, which I had assumed was an old replacement, but have since seen one or two others at auctions. The thread petered out at this point after a comment that they seemed to be rarer and peculiar to England, so no further information wasn't forthcoming.

Has anyone any knowledge of these blades, or owns one or has seen one around?

Thanks.

[ulfberth]

Yest they existed and started on 16th C estoc swords or Tuck as in the picture. Later also on rapiers, but these are rare. These blade were thick at the base and long , like 100cm or more and longer.
The blade type became more common in the 18th C on small swords, but shorter like around 80 cm lenght for the blade.
Please show us some pictures perhaps its possible to define it better.
kind regards
Ulfberth

[werecow]

That almost looks like a smallsword blade. Did not realize that those were mounted on estocs/tucks. Is it as light as the smallsword ones?

[urbanspaceman]

Is this what you are talking about? See below:

Incidentally: estocs were very long, rigid, armour-piercing swords carried at the front of the militia.
The 'hollowed' design was one variation which was lighter, and consequently could be longer; square (or diamond shapes) were also used.
The procedure for producing the hollow version was the forerunner to the development of the classic smallsword (and ultimately Brown Bess bayonets) until the secret machine came along.

[urbanspaceman]

do you see any of your variations here:

[ulfberth]

Originally Posted by werecow

That almost looks like a smallsword blade. Did not realize that those were mounted on estocs/tucks. Is it as light as the smallsword ones?

No, these are much thicker, like twice as thick as a small sword and longer to.

[Triarii]

Here are a few.
First one from the thread in the other forum where these blades are mentioned. Second from a dealers page, third is mine. There is another out there in the auction world which is the same shape, on a transitional rapier, though the back edge slopes slightly to one side.

All have a single edged, very deep isosceles section triangular blade.

[fernando]

No pictures uploaded,Triarii ?

[Triarii]

Whoops.