Tajong for viewing pleasure and comments !

mykeris · 11th August 2009, 03:55 PM

This Tajong is relatively short with total length of 52 cm. The hilt is made of Kenaong Merah with short blade Pandai Saras Luk 1. Appreciate what ever your kind comments are, TQ in advance. Mykeris.

mykeris · 11th August 2009, 04:08 PM

For your viewing pleasure.

BluErf · 11th August 2009, 04:10 PM

Small sized, but every thing is in good proportion. The hilt is quite inspired, in my opinion. Adheres to the "rules" of what makes a tajong a tajong, but at the same time, bending them and reinterpreting in the carver's own style. A mark of a talented carver.

BluErf · 11th August 2009, 04:12 PM

I believe the nose is a replacement.

Nicely done.

BluErf · 11th August 2009, 04:15 PM

Some of the surface of the tajong suggests that it may have been sanded down or polished to a certain extent. Too flat in some places. May have been an attempt to remove the old sapan.

mykeris · 11th August 2009, 05:08 PM

More close-ups

Sajen · 11th August 2009, 05:57 PM

Nice hilt, I don't think that it is inspired.
Can we see the complete blade please?

sajen

mykeris · 11th August 2009, 06:21 PM

Blade Length: Ganja to blade tip 36 cm

Alam Shah · 11th August 2009, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

I believe the nose is a replacement.

Nicely done.

I suppose so.. with a sudden termination of carvings, when it reaches the nose.. it looks like a hybrid of the bangsa agong and a typical later form, perhaps..

Sajen · 11th August 2009, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykeris

Blade Length: Ganja to blade tip 36 cm

Hello Mykeris,

thank's for the pictures of the blade. The blade is curved but not one luk, my two cents worth estimation.

Regards,

sajen

mykeris · 11th August 2009, 11:33 PM

Thanks and sincerely noted. Another sample with blade 41 cm.

Sajen · 12th August 2009, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykeris

Thanks and sincerely noted. Another sample with blade 41 cm.

Yes, I see why you call the first one "1 luk" but normally the lowest luk is three.

Regards,

sajen

David · 12th August 2009, 12:45 AM

I don't know, from this last group of close-ups it looks like the grain and tone of the wood lines up pretty well. I would be seriously impressed if the nose on this tajong is a replacement.

BluErf · 12th August 2009, 02:45 AM

I've seen a few tajongs with such 'surgical' replacements, and I've always been impressed by how well the replacement is done! But of course, for this case, I am only guessing from the pics; perhaps Mykeris can look at it more closely and let us know?

BluErf · 12th August 2009, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

it looks like a hybrid of the bangsa agong and a typical later form, perhaps..

Yes, that's why I say it is inspired.

But it is undoubtedly done by somebody who is very familiar with the tajong.

Sajen - I think you may need to see more tajongs to notice the subtlety.

BluErf · 12th August 2009, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykeris

Blade Length: Ganja to blade tip 36 cm

Yep, it's curved, but I don't know whether people up north really do consider this 1 luk. More likely straight. I had a keris from this region with a similar curved profile. Actually, come to think of it, the profile at the base of the blade is quite similar.

Notice the temper mark, which is a chevron shape. It has a name, which I cannot recall now.

David · 12th August 2009, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

I've seen a few tajongs with such 'surgical' replacements, and I've always been impressed by how well the replacement is done! But of course, for this case, I am only guessing from the pics; perhaps Mykeris can look at it more closely and let us know?

I have little doubt that such surgical replacement can be done...but i would still be mightily impressed.

I'd love to know what you do call that chevron temper mark. I have a blade with a similar line.

BluErf · 12th August 2009, 03:39 PM

During the course of the day, two words popped up... "pucuk rebung".

mykeris · 12th August 2009, 03:53 PM

Perhaps this would help.

David · 12th August 2009, 04:42 PM

Well, in these last 2 pics it does look like a replacement.
What are your thoughts with the hilt in hand Mykeris?

Sajen · 13th August 2009, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

Yes, that's why I say it is inspired.

But it is undoubtedly done by somebody who is very familiar with the tajong.

Sajen - I think you may need to see more tajongs to notice the subtlety.

Hello BluErf,

you are correct, I know nearly nothing about Tajong keris.

But I have learned and have been remembered from Mr. Maisey some time ago that it isn't possible to have "one luk" keris.

We cannot have a one luk keris; lowest count must be three.

You begin the count on the first luk above the gandik and finish the count on the same side of the blade, thus lowest number of luk can only be three.

But maybe I am wrong by this and this "rule" isn't valid by Tajong keris?
I know that you have a great experience by Tajong keris and I appreciate your knowledge very much, so please teach me by this.
Sincerely,

sajen

A. G. Maisey · 13th August 2009, 01:22 AM

Any person, or group of people, can decide how they wish to refer to anything.

If a person, or group of people, wish to refer to a keris with no luk, but with a blade that is clearly lurus as "luk satu", well, so be it. That is their decision.

However, according to what I have been taught, there is no such thing as "luk satu".

One luk does not exist, and logically cannot exist.

But anybody at all is entitled to his own opinion.

PenangsangII · 13th August 2009, 05:16 AM

I agree.... there's no such thing as luk satu....... and i believe it's just a recently concocted terminology......

Alan, do you think that the keris had undergone reshaping works / besutan esp at the sorsoran, to be precise, reshaping the worn out blade to display perfect ri pandan and other fret works?

A. G. Maisey · 13th August 2009, 06:56 AM

I don't know.

The sorsoran does look a bit clumsy and rigid, but whether this is the maker's inadequacy, or whether it is evidence of somebody having a bit of a fiddle, I wouldn't like to say, especially from a photo.

mykeris · 13th August 2009, 07:41 AM

Hi David, I ll comeback to our question later. Regards, Mykeris.

PenangsangII · 13th August 2009, 08:13 AM

Thanks for uploading the clearer picture of the fret works, mykeris.

looking at the blade as whole, I think it is out of proportion, especially at the sorsoran..... it doesnt widen harmoniously as a keris blade (dapur pandai saras) should be...... since this blade is quite old and dressed in Tajong hulu and sheath, I dont think it's due to the empu's inadequacy - rather, my theory is, somebody may have fiddled the blade to look good (some times to fetch a higher price).... But of course, I am not too sure about this

mykeris · 13th August 2009, 03:53 PM

Thanks for all your comments. Through close magnifying, the hilt looks to me so natural to show that the nose is not a replacement. However, it looks so odd when the carving stops unfinished and thats raised many questions. Probably, its a trend or the carver's trade mark or etc...Bluerf, you raised strong points and you are so observant, keep it up friend, ...I always overlooked on details.

As for the blade, I totally agree with Alan but will leave it to the Universe to decide. p/s: I will be posting another one for your viewing pleasure. Regards, Mykeris.

BluErf · 14th August 2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello BluErf,

you are correct, I know nearly nothing about Tajong keris.

But I have learned and have been remembered from Mr. Maisey some time ago that it isn't possible to have "one luk" keris.

We cannot have a one luk keris; lowest count must be three.

You begin the count on the first luk above the gandik and finish the count on the same side of the blade, thus lowest number of luk can only be three.

But maybe I am wrong by this and this "rule" isn't valid by Tajong keris?
I know that you have a great experience by Tajong keris and I appreciate your knowledge very much, so please teach me by this.
Sincerely,

sajen

Hi Sajen,

I wasn't talking about the keris blade; I was referring to the hilt being inspired.

Personally, I am not really bothered about the luk one or lurus thing, but I believe up North, they don't really refer to such blades as luk one.

BluErf · 14th August 2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykeris

Thanks for all your comments. Through close magnifying, the hilt looks to me so natural to show that the nose is not a replacement. However, it looks so odd when the carving stops unfinished and thats raised many questions. Probably, its a trend or the carver's trade mark or etc...Bluerf, you raised strong points and you are so observant, keep it up friend, ...I always overlooked on details.

As for the blade, I totally agree with Alan but will leave it to the Universe to decide. p/s: I will be posting another one for your viewing pleasure. Regards, Mykeris.

Hi Mykeris,

The tajong hilt's nose has a metal sleeve? It seems so from the last 2 pics you have posted. I can't tell whether the nose is a replacement for sure, but just do note that sometimes, some of these old repairs are so perfectly fitted, that one can hardly notice! But of course, I'm not doubting your observation, especially with the aid of a magnifying glass.

BluErf · 14th August 2009, 05:57 PM

Oh wait a minute, its a different tajong you're showing us. This one's rougher compared to the 1st one you showed us.

11th August 2009, 03:55 PM	#1
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Tajong for viewing pleasure and comments ! This Tajong is relatively short with total length of 52 cm. The hilt is made of Kenaong Merah with short blade Pandai Saras Luk 1. Appreciate what ever your kind comments are, TQ in advance. Mykeris. Attached Images Last edited by mykeris; 11th August 2009 at 04:09 PM.

11th August 2009, 04:08 PM	#2
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Additional pics. For your viewing pleasure. Attached Images

11th August 2009, 05:08 PM	#6
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	More close-ups More close-ups Attached Images

11th August 2009, 06:21 PM	#8
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Pics on blade Blade Length: Ganja to blade tip 36 cm Attached Images

11th August 2009, 11:33 PM	#11
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Another blade Thanks and sincerely noted. Another sample with blade 41 cm. Attached Images

11th August 2009, 04:10 PM	#3
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Small sized, but every thing is in good proportion. The hilt is quite inspired, in my opinion. Adheres to the "rules" of what makes a tajong a tajong, but at the same time, bending them and reinterpreting in the carver's own style. A mark of a talented carver.

11th August 2009, 04:12 PM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	I believe the nose is a replacement. Nicely done.

11th August 2009, 04:15 PM	#5
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Some of the surface of the tajong suggests that it may have been sanded down or polished to a certain extent. Too flat in some places. May have been an attempt to remove the old sapan.

11th August 2009, 05:57 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Nice hilt, I don't think that it is inspired. Can we see the complete blade please? sajen

12th August 2009, 12:45 AM	#13
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,125	I don't know, from this last group of close-ups it looks like the grain and tone of the wood lines up pretty well. I would be seriously impressed if the nose on this tajong is a replacement.

12th August 2009, 02:45 AM	#14
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	I've seen a few tajongs with such 'surgical' replacements, and I've always been impressed by how well the replacement is done! But of course, for this case, I am only guessing from the pics; perhaps Mykeris can look at it more closely and let us know?

12th August 2009, 03:39 PM	#18
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	During the course of the day, two words popped up... "pucuk rebung".

12th August 2009, 03:53 PM	#19
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Additional sampling Perhaps this would help. Attached Images

12th August 2009, 04:42 PM	#20
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,125	Well, in these last 2 pics it does look like a replacement. What are your thoughts with the hilt in hand Mykeris?

13th August 2009, 01:22 AM	#22
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Any person, or group of people, can decide how they wish to refer to anything. If a person, or group of people, wish to refer to a keris with no luk, but with a blade that is clearly lurus as "luk satu", well, so be it. That is their decision. However, according to what I have been taught, there is no such thing as "luk satu". One luk does not exist, and logically cannot exist. But anybody at all is entitled to his own opinion.

13th August 2009, 05:16 AM	#23
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	I agree.... there's no such thing as luk satu....... and i believe it's just a recently concocted terminology...... Alan, do you think that the keris had undergone reshaping works / besutan esp at the sorsoran, to be precise, reshaping the worn out blade to display perfect ri pandan and other fret works?

13th August 2009, 06:56 AM	#24
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	I don't know. The sorsoran does look a bit clumsy and rigid, but whether this is the maker's inadequacy, or whether it is evidence of somebody having a bit of a fiddle, I wouldn't like to say, especially from a photo.

13th August 2009, 07:41 AM	#25
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Additional pics of blade. Hi David, I ll comeback to our question later. Regards, Mykeris. Attached Images

13th August 2009, 08:13 AM	#26
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Thanks for uploading the clearer picture of the fret works, mykeris. looking at the blade as whole, I think it is out of proportion, especially at the sorsoran..... it doesnt widen harmoniously as a keris blade (dapur pandai saras) should be...... since this blade is quite old and dressed in Tajong hulu and sheath, I dont think it's due to the empu's inadequacy - rather, my theory is, somebody may have fiddled the blade to look good (some times to fetch a higher price).... But of course, I am not too sure about this

13th August 2009, 03:53 PM	#27
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Thanks for your comments. Thanks for all your comments. Through close magnifying, the hilt looks to me so natural to show that the nose is not a replacement. However, it looks so odd when the carving stops unfinished and thats raised many questions. Probably, its a trend or the carver's trade mark or etc...Bluerf, you raised strong points and you are so observant, keep it up friend, ...I always overlooked on details. As for the blade, I totally agree with Alan but will leave it to the Universe to decide. p/s: I will be posting another one for your viewing pleasure. Regards, Mykeris.

14th August 2009, 05:57 PM	#30
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Oh wait a minute, its a different tajong you're showing us. This one's rougher compared to the 1st one you showed us.