Afar knife

chregu · 6th November 2011, 08:03 PM

my current fund
Afar knife. Smells like cow! smile
Who knows more about it? grateful for any information.
greeting Chregu

Jim McDougall · 7th November 2011, 07:00 AM

A classic ethnographic piece Chregu!
I'm not sure what you'd like to know about these, but as always I try to find out about the history around the weapon. Clearly it is a modern weapon, but the nomadic tribal Afar (Danakil) people who use these knives which are termed 'gile' are pastoral and herd cattle as well as goats and sheep.

They inhabit the regions in Ethiopia, Eritrea and Somalia bit most known for the Ethiopian region known as the Danakil Depression, a desert known often as the 'cruelest place on earth' for its dramatic and harsh temperatures.
From most of what little is written on these, the blades are typically from car or truck springs and metal files. The men of the tribes of these people are well known for martial prowess, however these knives are utilitarian as well and this weapon seems used so unlikely a 'tourist' item, which is I think too often assigned to modern items still used or worn by many ethnic groups in present times.

"African Arms & Armour" C.Spring, British Museum, 1993, pp.103-105

attached: Afar nomad and in pink, the Afar regions of Ethiopia

Hope this will be of some help

All the best,
Jim

chregu · 8th November 2011, 07:27 PM

hi Jim
Thanks for your help. what do you think about the 50s would have to agree?
many greetings Chregu

Martin Lubojacky · 8th November 2011, 08:25 PM

Hello Chregu,

let me also enter: I think it is hard to say if fifties, sixties or seventies - the pommel and the blade are nicely worn, on the other side the sheath is very well preserved. The most important is it is nice knife made for use by the local people, and definitely not now. And it was worn and used - constantly for years, as you can even smell...

Jim McDougall · 8th November 2011, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chregu

hi Jim
Thanks for your help. what do you think about the 50s would have to agree?
many greetings Chregu

Thank you Chregu for the response, and absolutely my pleasure. I am grateful for your posting this, there really is not a great deal on them in most literature but they are certainly of use into modern times. I agree with Martin's time assessment, probably in the 60s but a genuinely used piece.

All the very best,
Jim

Mauro · 8th November 2011, 10:42 PM

Hi people, I visited AFAR in february and many people were dressing knives like this and I was looking to find a better and older one but without success in the field. You get better examples in the shops in Addis Ababa but in any case it is quite difficult to export because at the airport they can stop you and prevent to carry with you. At least an old knife. May be a new one is not a problem. For the older one they said is a national heritage !! In any case you can also find many of them in the net. In my opinion the scabbard of this knife is quite well made and look much older than most of the knives I have seen. Apparently the tip of the scabbard is missing. It is usually made of brass. The handle also is quite well worn and the blade looks fresher because it has been deeply cleaned, may be to sell it. I suppose it is older than the '50thies but I do not know much more.

Martin Lubojacky · 8th November 2011, 11:44 PM

Hi Mauro, used Afar type knife or dagger used to be favourite souvenier in Ethiopia in mid 90s. Afars and others used to sell their old knives to Addis´ vendors and they immediately employed new knives. Sheaths did not have always metal tips and I think it also depends on the region, and if Afar, afarised Oromo etc. Even "old" Afar knives, when constantly used, had clean and nearly shiny blades - this is what I saw among Kereyu.

chregu · 9th November 2011, 09:14 PM

hello together
Hi Martin nice to read from you!
Thanks for your help.
I've photographed a few details.
the front of the sgabard is a kind of pocket. and see the contents of her in the photo.
on the razor blade is: OREL Trademark
I found the net on the fly or nothing about it.
greeting Chregu

Martin Lubojacky · 10th November 2011, 12:15 AM

Hi Chregu,

I like this patina on the scabbard.

Conventional single-point razor-blades are videly used in Africa by ordinary people, not only for shaving, but mostly as a tool - for accurate cutting, e.g. of leather. Traditional European producers vere pushed out from the African market by Chinese fakes (they copied even the trademarks and signs "made in...) - especially in East Africa. (Since I am in Nigeria now, I can say, that Nigeria is the biggest trade partner of the Czech Republic as far as this kind of razor-blades is concerned.) Orel means eagle in Czech and some other Slavonic languages, but I googled it and I found out it was, very probably, German producer. I do not know if "Orel" is still produced. If not, it could be interesting to find out when the production was stopped.

- So, the owner of the knife has hidden very useful tool in the sheath.

Regards,
Martin

Mauro · 11th November 2011, 01:35 AM

Thanks Martin for the info. I supposed that something similar occurred among Afar people. Also thanks to Chregu for the nice photos of the scabbard that it is really a nice one.

Jim McDougall · 11th November 2011, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky

Hi Chregu,

I like this patina on the scabbard.

Conventional single-point razor-blades are videly used in Africa by ordinary people, not only for shaving, but mostly as a tool - for accurate cutting, e.g. of leather. Traditional European producers vere pushed out from the African market by Chinese fakes (they copied even the trademarks and signs "made in...) - especially in East Africa. (Since I am in Nigeria now, I can say, that Nigeria is the biggest trade partner of the Czech Republic as far as this kind of razor-blades is concerned.) Orel means eagle in Czech and some other Slavonic languages, but I googled it and I found out it was, very probably, German producer. I do not know if "Orel" is still produced. If not, it could be interesting to find out when the production was stopped.

- So, the owner of the knife has hidden very useful tool in the sheath.

Regards,
Martin

Wow! Martin, perfectly deduced forensics!!!! I never would have thought of that razor blade as a clue! excellent

Thank you for sharing that and now I'm anxious to find out more on the outcome.

Best regards,
Jim

chregu · 11th November 2011, 07:03 PM

hello together
I found something
have no idea if this goes?
if not, I ask for help. photo of razor blades OREL

Mauro · 13th November 2011, 08:20 PM

I am not able to open it. Please upload again

chregu · 18th November 2011, 06:22 PM

I Try again.
It's not sorry. no idea how I insert this Word document.

Ferguson · 19th November 2011, 01:04 AM

Orel label.

Mauro · 19th November 2011, 01:36 AM

Thanks Ferguson. I had a very fast look at Orel razor blades and I found many in between 1930 and 1943 but not exactly the same label. I shall have a deeper look

6th November 2011, 08:03 PM	#1
chregu Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: switzerland Posts: 298	Afar knife my current fund Afar knife. Smells like cow! smile Who knows more about it? grateful for any information. greeting Chregu Attached Images

7th November 2011, 07:00 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	A classic ethnographic piece Chregu! I'm not sure what you'd like to know about these, but as always I try to find out about the history around the weapon. Clearly it is a modern weapon, but the nomadic tribal Afar (Danakil) people who use these knives which are termed 'gile' are pastoral and herd cattle as well as goats and sheep. They inhabit the regions in Ethiopia, Eritrea and Somalia bit most known for the Ethiopian region known as the Danakil Depression, a desert known often as the 'cruelest place on earth' for its dramatic and harsh temperatures. From most of what little is written on these, the blades are typically from car or truck springs and metal files. The men of the tribes of these people are well known for martial prowess, however these knives are utilitarian as well and this weapon seems used so unlikely a 'tourist' item, which is I think too often assigned to modern items still used or worn by many ethnic groups in present times. "African Arms & Armour" C.Spring, British Museum, 1993, pp.103-105 attached: Afar nomad and in pink, the Afar regions of Ethiopia Hope this will be of some help All the best, Jim Attached Images

9th November 2011, 09:14 PM	#8
chregu Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: switzerland Posts: 298	hello together Hi Martin nice to read from you! Thanks for your help. I've photographed a few details. the front of the sgabard is a kind of pocket. and see the contents of her in the photo. on the razor blade is: OREL Trademark I found the net on the fly or nothing about it. greeting Chregu Attached Images

19th November 2011, 01:04 AM	#15
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Orel label. Attached Images

8th November 2011, 07:27 PM	#3
chregu Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: switzerland Posts: 298	hi Jim Thanks for your help. what do you think about the 50s would have to agree? many greetings Chregu

8th November 2011, 08:25 PM	#4
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	Hello Chregu, let me also enter: I think it is hard to say if fifties, sixties or seventies - the pommel and the blade are nicely worn, on the other side the sheath is very well preserved. The most important is it is nice knife made for use by the local people, and definitely not now. And it was worn and used - constantly for years, as you can even smell...

8th November 2011, 10:42 PM	#6
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	Hi people, I visited AFAR in february and many people were dressing knives like this and I was looking to find a better and older one but without success in the field. You get better examples in the shops in Addis Ababa but in any case it is quite difficult to export because at the airport they can stop you and prevent to carry with you. At least an old knife. May be a new one is not a problem. For the older one they said is a national heritage !! In any case you can also find many of them in the net. In my opinion the scabbard of this knife is quite well made and look much older than most of the knives I have seen. Apparently the tip of the scabbard is missing. It is usually made of brass. The handle also is quite well worn and the blade looks fresher because it has been deeply cleaned, may be to sell it. I suppose it is older than the '50thies but I do not know much more.

8th November 2011, 11:44 PM	#7
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	Hi Mauro, used Afar type knife or dagger used to be favourite souvenier in Ethiopia in mid 90s. Afars and others used to sell their old knives to Addis´ vendors and they immediately employed new knives. Sheaths did not have always metal tips and I think it also depends on the region, and if Afar, afarised Oromo etc. Even "old" Afar knives, when constantly used, had clean and nearly shiny blades - this is what I saw among Kereyu.

10th November 2011, 12:15 AM	#9
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	Hi Chregu, I like this patina on the scabbard. Conventional single-point razor-blades are videly used in Africa by ordinary people, not only for shaving, but mostly as a tool - for accurate cutting, e.g. of leather. Traditional European producers vere pushed out from the African market by Chinese fakes (they copied even the trademarks and signs "made in...) - especially in East Africa. (Since I am in Nigeria now, I can say, that Nigeria is the biggest trade partner of the Czech Republic as far as this kind of razor-blades is concerned.) Orel means eagle in Czech and some other Slavonic languages, but I googled it and I found out it was, very probably, German producer. I do not know if "Orel" is still produced. If not, it could be interesting to find out when the production was stopped. - So, the owner of the knife has hidden very useful tool in the sheath. Regards, Martin

11th November 2011, 01:35 AM	#10
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	Thanks Martin for the info. I supposed that something similar occurred among Afar people. Also thanks to Chregu for the nice photos of the scabbard that it is really a nice one.

13th November 2011, 08:20 PM	#13
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	I am not able to open it. Please upload again

18th November 2011, 06:22 PM	#14
chregu Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: switzerland Posts: 298	I Try again. It's not sorry. no idea how I insert this Word document.

19th November 2011, 01:36 AM	#16
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	Thanks Ferguson. I had a very fast look at Orel razor blades and I found many in between 1930 and 1943 but not exactly the same label. I shall have a deeper look