Indian scabbards

Jens Nordlunde · 27th March 2018, 04:06 PM

The Indian scabbards were covered with leather, but also with brocade, velvet, and other textiles.
Something which I have only seen on scabbards covered in leather is the 'loop', or rather the rest of it, looking mostly like a 'fish tail'.
I only have one scabbard with the 'loop' intact, and would like to know if other members have scabbards with a 'loop'.

ArmsAndAntiques · 27th March 2018, 04:24 PM

Indeed, I have had several and currently have one with an original loop.

It was used to loop over a handle quillon to prevent the sword from slipping out.

Jens Nordlunde · 27th March 2018, 06:19 PM

These scabbards with the 'loop' are not very old, but on the old scabbards you can see that these 'loops' was used for a long time, although they have broken off.
It is interesting to notice that the 'loops' were only used on scabbards covered with leather, the other scabbards must have had a string which could be attached to the quillon.

Jens Nordlunde · 28th March 2018, 01:44 PM

Here is another example.
The originale scabbard is 18th century. The loop is missing, but the 'fish tail' can be seen on the left side of the scabbard.

ariel · 28th March 2018, 06:00 PM

Really old Indian scabbards must be rarer than hen's teeth: dry heat, wet heat, rains....

Anything from early 19th century in good condition would be a unique example, except for something stored in a royal palace and attended to on a regular basis.

I remember reading somewhere that the Russian War Ministry specified scabbards replacement for cossack hosts ( they were made of wood/leather) every 3 years or something similar. Every time a sword was taken out or put into the scabbard, it cut the wooden inserts and the leather, the leather dried out ( Jens' example) or just rotted.

The reason we see those gorgeous scabbards in Wallace Collection is because they were made largely post 1870 in royal workshops and immediately sold as souvenirs to European museums, dealers and just for the general public to hang them on the wall in their British libraries next to Victorian copies of " medieval" swords..

Jens Nordlunde · 29th March 2018, 04:32 PM

Ariel is, no doubt, right about leather scabbards often in use, but as he also writes, 'except for something stored in a royal palace and attended to on a regular basis.'
I believe this is one of these cases, where the sword was seldom used, and taken very good care of when is was not used. This is why I believe the sword and the scabbard are of the same age.

ariel · 29th March 2018, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Ariel is, no doubt, right about leather scabbards often in use, but as he also writes, 'except for something stored in a royal palace and attended to on a regular basis.'
I believe this is one of these cases, where the sword was seldom used, and taken very good care of when is was not used. This is why I believe the sword and the scabbard are of the same age.

Very possible.

The leather is in a bad shape, but may be original 18th century.

Pukka Bundook · 30th March 2018, 02:36 PM

Jens,

Is there any accounting for the 'fish tail' and the loop being always found together? It is interesting that loops do not appear to have been used on scabbards with no fish tail. I wonder why? Do you know if the loops on these leather covered scabbards were produced only in one locality? If this was so, it makes more sense maybe.

Very best,

Richard.

27th March 2018, 04:06 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Indian scabbards The Indian scabbards were covered with leather, but also with brocade, velvet, and other textiles. Something which I have only seen on scabbards covered in leather is the 'loop', or rather the rest of it, looking mostly like a 'fish tail'. I only have one scabbard with the 'loop' intact, and would like to know if other members have scabbards with a 'loop'. Attached Images

28th March 2018, 01:44 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Here is another example. The originale scabbard is 18th century. The loop is missing, but the 'fish tail' can be seen on the left side of the scabbard. Attached Images

27th March 2018, 04:24 PM	#2
ArmsAndAntiques Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 80	Indeed, I have had several and currently have one with an original loop. It was used to loop over a handle quillon to prevent the sword from slipping out.

27th March 2018, 06:19 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	These scabbards with the 'loop' are not very old, but on the old scabbards you can see that these 'loops' was used for a long time, although they have broken off. It is interesting to notice that the 'loops' were only used on scabbards covered with leather, the other scabbards must have had a string which could be attached to the quillon.

28th March 2018, 06:00 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Really old Indian scabbards must be rarer than hen's teeth: dry heat, wet heat, rains.... Anything from early 19th century in good condition would be a unique example, except for something stored in a royal palace and attended to on a regular basis. I remember reading somewhere that the Russian War Ministry specified scabbards replacement for cossack hosts ( they were made of wood/leather) every 3 years or something similar. Every time a sword was taken out or put into the scabbard, it cut the wooden inserts and the leather, the leather dried out ( Jens' example) or just rotted. The reason we see those gorgeous scabbards in Wallace Collection is because they were made largely post 1870 in royal workshops and immediately sold as souvenirs to European museums, dealers and just for the general public to hang them on the wall in their British libraries next to Victorian copies of " medieval" swords..

29th March 2018, 04:32 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Ariel is, no doubt, right about leather scabbards often in use, but as he also writes, 'except for something stored in a royal palace and attended to on a regular basis.' I believe this is one of these cases, where the sword was seldom used, and taken very good care of when is was not used. This is why I believe the sword and the scabbard are of the same age.

30th March 2018, 02:36 PM	#8
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Jens, Is there any accounting for the 'fish tail' and the loop being always found together? It is interesting that loops do not appear to have been used on scabbards with no fish tail. I wonder why? Do you know if the loops on these leather covered scabbards were produced only in one locality? If this was so, it makes more sense maybe. Very best, Richard.