Shaver Cool -- redux

Ian · 19th January 2024, 01:26 PM

This one is for Jim McDougall.

For those members who have been visiting these pages since the early 2000s, I have a little trip down memory lane. You may recall the infamous "Shaver Cool" thread that discussed a sword with the inscription "Shaver Cool" and "Batavia" on the blade as well as a VOC marking of the Dutch East Indies Company. This was a thread that would not die. The subject of the thread bemused the best of minds here for months. Unfortunately, the thread died when the old UBB forum pages were hacked. Perhaps the "wayback machine" can resurrect some of it.

In any case, the purpose of bringing up this subject again is that I had never seen another blade marked with "Shaver Cool" or "Batavia" until a month ago when one appeared on an auction site. The sword was not in great shape, but had the same "Shaver Cool" and "Batavia" marks, as well as an inscribed picture of a schooner and a VOC inscription that was clearly bogus. The basket hilt and garuda pommel were similar to the earlier example also. However, if I recall correctly, the overall quality of this recent sword is not as good as the earlier example.

See also here.

Attached are the auction pictures. This sword appeared in an auction lot of three or four swords. Maybe someone here now has it.
.

TVV · 19th January 2024, 07:39 PM

The Batavia sank more than a century prior to the 1741 date on the blade, though that is far from the biggest issue with the inscriptions.

werecow · 20th January 2024, 01:42 AM

Quote:

For those members who have been visiting these pages since the early 2000s, I have a little trip down memory lane. You may recall the infamous "Shaver Cool" thread that discussed a sword with the inscription "Shaver Cool" and "Batavia" on the blade as well as a VOC marking of the Dutch East Indies Company. This was a thread that would not die. The subject of the thread bemused the best of minds here for months. Unfortunately, the thread died when the old UBB forum pages were hacked. Perhaps the "wayback machine" can resurrect some of it.

FWIW I've only been frequenting this forum since around the start of COVID and I remember this like I was there.

I saw one get auctioned off last year at catawiki for (IIRC) €1100 plus auction fee and rising (at that point I had to avert my eyes but I believe I posted here - EDIT: Ah, yes, so I did, it was €1101 + 9% + shipping - EDIT 2: Oh god, was searching google to find the catawiki one... there's so many of them... I found three in just two minutes of google image searching).
It was not of the same stellar quality as the specimen in this post.

Mods, apologies in case this is not allowed, but just to make the point about cautionary tales with bidding sites:

1
2
3

And finally the one I watched in horror:

4

AAAAAAAAAAAAH.

Ian · 20th January 2024, 05:59 AM

If we look at the various examples referenced here, it is apparent that no two are exactly alike. The quality of workmanship varies widely, and is generally not of a high standard. Certainly not up to the quality of blades coming from Tjikeroeh and other centers in Western Java during the late 19th and early 20th C.

I think all of these are of Indonesian manufacture and it is unlikely that any European was involved in their production. I believe they were intended for sale to the local and overseas European market (i.e., Dutch colonials and homeland), and are not in any way linked to the VOC. The markings are designed, perhaps, to appeal to nostalgia in the intended market. As to when they were made, I would guess in the early 20th C around the same time the better quality European style knives and swords were being produced in blade centers of western Java.

Auctioneers' stories of these swords being supplied to sailors aboard VOC ships are highly unlikely to be correct.

Jim McDougall · 20th January 2024, 08:24 AM

OMG IAN!
It wasn't months! it was years!
Too funny, thank you for the note, fun days

David · 21st January 2024, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

The Batavia sank more than a century prior to the 1741 date on the blade, though that is far from the biggest issue with the inscriptions.

I believe "Batavia" refers to the place, the former capital of the Dutch East Indies that now corresponds to present-day Jakarta, not a boat.

Ian · 21st January 2024, 09:21 PM

David,

You are probably right, although there is usually a depiction of a schooner on these blades, which encourages one to think of the ship by that name and assign some nautical significance to the sword. None of this is important, of course, if these are simply locally made Indonesian swords created for a nostalgic Dutch market more than a century after the VOC ceased to exist.

Jim McDougall · 21st January 2024, 11:47 PM

A great book I've had for a long time is "Batavia's Graveyard" Mike Dash, 2001, about the wreck of one of the VOC fleet flagships wrecked of the coast of Australia 4 June 1629 near an island now known as 'Beacon Island'.

Its an incredible true story of mutiny, survival, and all manner of drama that seems to have been an important event in Dutch, and Australian history.

I think in the context of being shown in this manner on the blade, it would be to the place as suggested, not to the ship.

David · 22nd January 2024, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

David,

You are probably right, although there is usually a depiction of a schooner on these blades, which encourages one to think of the ship by that name and assign some nautical significance to the sword. None of this is important, of course, if these are simply locally made Indonesian swords created for a nostalgic Dutch market more than a century after the VOC ceased to exist.

I dunno. The inscriptions on these swords attempt to make a fake VOC connection. The first permanent Dutch trading post was established in 1603 in Banten, West Java, Indonesia. Today this area is Batavia, Indonesia.
Java is an island so sailing ships kinda go with the territory. I see nothing particularly incongruent here.
BTW, if you google "Cooler Shaver Batavia Sword" right now you can find at least 6 examples of these swords, all of varying quality, though none of particularly good quality.

gp · 22nd January 2024, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I believe "Batavia" refers to the place, the former capital of the Dutch East Indies that now corresponds to present-day Jakarta, not a boat.

it does to both. Not only the capital but quite some books have been written about the Batavia, which was shipwrecked of the coast of Australia

https://www.sea.museum/2016/06/04/ba...avia-shipwreck

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batavia_(1628_ship)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HHfn3eg4_E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y9H0SFfBj8

kai · 22nd January 2024, 10:43 PM

Hello David,

Quote:

The first permanent Dutch trading post was established in 1603 in Banten, West Java, Indonesia. Today this area is Batavia, Indonesia.

Just a minor correction: Modern Jakarta developed from Batavia; Banten is a different, ancient settlement which is situated towards the West...
w
Regards,
Kai

TVV · 22nd January 2024, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I believe "Batavia" refers to the place, the former capital of the Dutch East Indies that now corresponds to present-day Jakarta, not a boat.

Good point, but for some reason my mind went straight to the ship, and a potential attempt to try to associate the hanger with it. Genuine VOC blades do have city markings, but if I am not mistaken those are one letter only, like A for Amsterdam for example and all referring to cities in the Netherlands, not to any colonies.

Jim McDougall · 23rd January 2024, 02:23 AM

In looking again at the inscription, the quoted "BATAVIA" WOULD indeed not refer to a place in that manner, but directly in commemoration to that ship.
This is of course a 19th century item in that sense, more of a souvenir type weapon? not of high enough quality for presentation or ceremonial.

As you say, the authentic examples of VOC blades have the 'chamber' letter of one of the six kamers (chambers) , which A (Amsterdam) was most common; with M (Middleburg) R (Rotterdam) etc.. These letters were with the VOC and blades were dated with year, seeming to range from mid 18th c. to late 18th.

Its been a while since we've been in these waters!

kai · 23rd January 2024, 03:14 AM

Dear all,

I believe we're getting sidetracked here - references to VOC and Batavia (town/ship/whatever) are completely spurious.

The quality of these "shaver cool items" definitely points to the post-independence era - no chance that these originated from the 19th century!

I believe we had a thread some years back that showed swords with similar fittings attributed as presentation pieces of the early Indonesian navy. These "shaver cool items" seem to be cheap knockoffs of this style with added spices for making them more palatable to those traveling for pleasure.

My 2 cents...

Regards,
Kai

Ian · 23rd January 2024, 04:45 AM

Kai,

I agree mostly with what you say. I too think these are inexpensive pieces aimed at those who travel. However, some appear to have more age than others. The basic pattern seems to be a Dutch naval officer's sword of 1880. That they are of Indonesian manufacture seems well established. All markings are not authentic historically, and designed for marketing purposes. As to when these swords were made, I think that some are early 20th C, possibly coincident with the European styled pieces of better quality from W. Java, while others appear more recent in manufacture.

Attempts to decide whether Batavia refers to a place or an historical VOC ship are interesting but of no real importance given that the inscriptions on these swords are basically meaningless.

I don't think we need to drag this story out much further. I posted this example as a "remember when," rather than a serious discussion of the merits and meanings of these swords.

Jim McDougall · 23rd January 2024, 08:51 AM

Ian, just wanted to thank you, this was indeed a nice gesture to remembering when some amazing discussions happened here, and this one was a classic that just would not let go!
It would seem it still has the same 'draw'

I think you have summed it up nicely, and the topic of the widely dispersed VOC blades remains ever intriguing....while these much later VOC souvenirs still remain the specious 'red herrings' that challenge us.

David · 23rd January 2024, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello David,

Just a minor correction: Modern Jakarta developed from Batavia; Banten is a different, ancient settlement why is situated towards the West...

Regards,
Kai

I believe that the sentence i copy & pasted was talking about the Residency of Batavia, which includes a much larger area than just where modern Jakarta is today.

"Batavia was the capital of the Dutch East Indies. The area corresponds to present-day Jakarta, Indonesia. Batavia can refer to the city proper or its suburbs and hinterland, the Ommelanden, which included the much larger area of the Residency of Batavia in the present-day Indonesian provinces of Jakarta, Banten and West Java."

David · 23rd January 2024, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Dear all,

I believe we're getting sidetracked here - references to VOC and Batavia (town/ship/whatever) are completely spurious.

The quality of these "shaver cool items" definitely points to the post-independence era - no chance that these originated from the 19th century!

I believe we had a thread some years back that showed swords with similar fittings attributed as presentation pieces of the early Indonesian navy. These "shaver cool items" seem to be cheap knockoffs of this style with added spices for making them more palatable to those traveling for pleasure.

My 2 cents...

Regards,
Kai

Exactly!

Jim McDougall · 23rd January 2024, 06:26 PM

SHAVER COOL reigns!

gp · 23rd January 2024, 08:37 PM

2 pics of VOC swords

one from Java after European model, hilt with copper mounting and grip made from horn
pamor double-edged blade with at both sides VOC and A (Amsterdam) monogram year 1742 engraved , lenght 64 cm

the second one has a double-eged blade, engraved 1655, below the brass basket hilt the letters V.O.Cm made in Ambon
According to the Dutch Army Museum from a later date

some nice cold weapons from the same date in the Rijksmuseum Amsterdam

https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/en/rijkss...bres-and-foils

Radboud · 24th January 2024, 11:29 PM

When my family travelled to Bali in the 1980's these 'shaver cool' swords were available in every second tourist junk shop we wandered into. They'd be stacked up alongside fake Kris, katanas and other paraphernalia.

They were all cheaply made, with mild steel blades and thin brass guards. We brought one home, along with a couple of 'katanas' and a Kris, but they all ended up in the tip (ironically 6months before I discovered the 'shaver cool' phenomenon).

Personally I believe that these swords are actually modelled on the dress sword for Indoneasian navy officers which features the same Garuda head pommel, bone handle and feathered backstrap. That in itself dates them to no earlier than the mid 20th Century.

Rick · 25th January 2024, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radboud

When my family travelled to Bali in the 1980's these 'shaver cool' swords were available in every second tourist junk shop we wandered into. They'd be stacked up alongside fake Kris, katanas and other paraphernalia.

They were all cheaply made, with mild steel blades and thin brass guards. We brought one home, along with a couple of 'katanas' and a Kris, but they all ended up in the tip (ironically 6months before I discovered the 'shaver cool' phenomenon).

Personally I believe that these swords are actually modelled on the dress sword for Indoneasian navy officers which features the same Garuda head pommel, bone handle and feathered backstrap. That in itself dates them to no earlier than the mid 20th Century.

An eyewitness at last, Jîm!

Jim McDougall · 25th January 2024, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

An eyewitness at last, Jîm!

About time ya popped in here ya old salt!
Yup, AT LAST................PROOF!

For some reason, the whole Shaver Cool phenomenon always brought to mind the weird strings of meaningful laconic signs along the highway on long driving trips that ended up with BURMA SHAVE. I never mentioned that in the never ending strings of entries over those years...only to my therapist

Thank you Radboud!! Now we can get some sleep!

Ian · 25th January 2024, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... Now we can get some sleep!

So let's put this one to bed now.

Thread closed!

19th January 2024, 01:26 PM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Shaver Cool -- redux This one is for Jim McDougall. For those members who have been visiting these pages since the early 2000s, I have a little trip down memory lane. You may recall the infamous "Shaver Cool" thread that discussed a sword with the inscription "Shaver Cool" and "Batavia" on the blade as well as a VOC marking of the Dutch East Indies Company. This was a thread that would not die. The subject of the thread bemused the best of minds here for months. Unfortunately, the thread died when the old UBB forum pages were hacked. Perhaps the "wayback machine" can resurrect some of it. In any case, the purpose of bringing up this subject again is that I had never seen another blade marked with "Shaver Cool" or "Batavia" until a month ago when one appeared on an auction site. The sword was not in great shape, but had the same "Shaver Cool" and "Batavia" marks, as well as an inscribed picture of a schooner and a VOC inscription that was clearly bogus. The basket hilt and garuda pommel were similar to the earlier example also. However, if I recall correctly, the overall quality of this recent sword is not as good as the earlier example. See also here. Attached are the auction pictures. This sword appeared in an auction lot of three or four swords. Maybe someone here now has it. . Attached Images Last edited by Ian; 19th January 2024 at 02:06 PM.

23rd January 2024, 02:23 AM	#13
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	In looking again at the inscription, the quoted "BATAVIA" WOULD indeed not refer to a place in that manner, but directly in commemoration to that ship. This is of course a 19th century item in that sense, more of a souvenir type weapon? not of high enough quality for presentation or ceremonial. As you say, the authentic examples of VOC blades have the 'chamber' letter of one of the six kamers (chambers) , which A (Amsterdam) was most common; with M (Middleburg) R (Rotterdam) etc.. These letters were with the VOC and blades were dated with year, seeming to range from mid 18th c. to late 18th. Its been a while since we've been in these waters! Last edited by Jim McDougall; 23rd January 2024 at 03:39 AM.

23rd January 2024, 08:37 PM	#20
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 719	2 pics of VOC swords one from Java after European model, hilt with copper mounting and grip made from horn pamor double-edged blade with at both sides VOC and A (Amsterdam) monogram year 1742 engraved , lenght 64 cm the second one has a double-eged blade, engraved 1655, below the brass basket hilt the letters V.O.Cm made in Ambon According to the Dutch Army Museum from a later date some nice cold weapons from the same date in the Rijksmuseum Amsterdam https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/en/rijkss...bres-and-foils Attached Images

19th January 2024, 07:39 PM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	The Batavia sank more than a century prior to the 1741 date on the blade, though that is far from the biggest issue with the inscriptions.

20th January 2024, 05:59 AM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	If we look at the various examples referenced here, it is apparent that no two are exactly alike. The quality of workmanship varies widely, and is generally not of a high standard. Certainly not up to the quality of blades coming from Tjikeroeh and other centers in Western Java during the late 19th and early 20th C. I think all of these are of Indonesian manufacture and it is unlikely that any European was involved in their production. I believe they were intended for sale to the local and overseas European market (i.e., Dutch colonials and homeland), and are not in any way linked to the VOC. The markings are designed, perhaps, to appeal to nostalgia in the intended market. As to when they were made, I would guess in the early 20th C around the same time the better quality European style knives and swords were being produced in blade centers of western Java. Auctioneers' stories of these swords being supplied to sailors aboard VOC ships are highly unlikely to be correct.

20th January 2024, 08:24 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	OMG IAN! It wasn't months! it was years! Too funny, thank you for the note, fun days

21st January 2024, 09:21 PM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	David, You are probably right, although there is usually a depiction of a schooner on these blades, which encourages one to think of the ship by that name and assign some nautical significance to the sword. None of this is important, of course, if these are simply locally made Indonesian swords created for a nostalgic Dutch market more than a century after the VOC ceased to exist.

21st January 2024, 11:47 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	A great book I've had for a long time is "Batavia's Graveyard" Mike Dash, 2001, about the wreck of one of the VOC fleet flagships wrecked of the coast of Australia 4 June 1629 near an island now known as 'Beacon Island'. Its an incredible true story of mutiny, survival, and all manner of drama that seems to have been an important event in Dutch, and Australian history. I think in the context of being shown in this manner on the blade, it would be to the place as suggested, not to the ship.

23rd January 2024, 03:14 AM	#14
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Dear all, I believe we're getting sidetracked here - references to VOC and Batavia (town/ship/whatever) are completely spurious. The quality of these "shaver cool items" definitely points to the post-independence era - no chance that these originated from the 19th century! I believe we had a thread some years back that showed swords with similar fittings attributed as presentation pieces of the early Indonesian navy. These "shaver cool items" seem to be cheap knockoffs of this style with added spices for making them more palatable to those traveling for pleasure. My 2 cents... Regards, Kai

23rd January 2024, 04:45 AM	#15
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Kai, I agree mostly with what you say. I too think these are inexpensive pieces aimed at those who travel. However, some appear to have more age than others. The basic pattern seems to be a Dutch naval officer's sword of 1880. That they are of Indonesian manufacture seems well established. All markings are not authentic historically, and designed for marketing purposes. As to when these swords were made, I think that some are early 20th C, possibly coincident with the European styled pieces of better quality from W. Java, while others appear more recent in manufacture. Attempts to decide whether Batavia refers to a place or an historical VOC ship are interesting but of no real importance given that the inscriptions on these swords are basically meaningless. I don't think we need to drag this story out much further. I posted this example as a "remember when," rather than a serious discussion of the merits and meanings of these swords.

23rd January 2024, 08:51 AM	#16
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	Ian, just wanted to thank you, this was indeed a nice gesture to remembering when some amazing discussions happened here, and this one was a classic that just would not let go! It would seem it still has the same 'draw' I think you have summed it up nicely, and the topic of the widely dispersed VOC blades remains ever intriguing....while these much later VOC souvenirs still remain the specious 'red herrings' that challenge us.

23rd January 2024, 06:26 PM	#19
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	SHAVER COOL reigns!

24th January 2024, 11:29 PM	#21
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 261	When my family travelled to Bali in the 1980's these 'shaver cool' swords were available in every second tourist junk shop we wandered into. They'd be stacked up alongside fake Kris, katanas and other paraphernalia. They were all cheaply made, with mild steel blades and thin brass guards. We brought one home, along with a couple of 'katanas' and a Kris, but they all ended up in the tip (ironically 6months before I discovered the 'shaver cool' phenomenon). Personally I believe that these swords are actually modelled on the dress sword for Indoneasian navy officers which features the same Garuda head pommel, bone handle and feathered backstrap. That in itself dates them to no earlier than the mid 20th Century.