It's pointed...its metal...but not quite a weapon.

katana · 19th August 2008, 01:26 PM

Hope you don't mind me posting this....but I am very excited about it

When I first joined the forum, I mentioned that I would like to learn bladesmithing.....'hands on' knowledge in blade manufacture can only increase my overall knowledge.

The item is pointed and made of metal and if you have ever watched 'Wile E Coyote' trying in vain to squash the 'Roadrunner' with one of these....you will know, it can be loosely described as a weapon

The Anvil is HUGE 40" from the point of the 'beak' to the opposite end. Ideal area for blades. I am incredibly lucky to have obtained this, likely very old (could be earlier than 19th C) and very unusual because of its size.

All comments or advice will be very welcome

Regards David

.

Atlantia · 19th August 2008, 03:05 PM

Fantastic.
remember how people used to make their own brickwork BBQs? Nice one of those with careful ventilation would produce plenty enough heat to get a sword bar hot enough to work.
Probobly have to use heatproof bricks as you're gonna use it regularly.
Use an old wrought iron grate out of a coal fire (set in of course).
boot sales are a great source of BIG old hammers of various sizes.

Of course the neighbours will love you!

fernando · 19th August 2008, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Fantastic... Of course the neighbours will love you!

Jim McDougall · 19th August 2008, 05:44 PM

LOL!! That is great David! Love the analogy about Wile Coyote and the roadrunner

We're in the desert outside Tucson right now, and there are coyotes serenading at night, and the roadrunners are indeed very strange birds. I do recall good ole Wile with his trusty anvil, and now I'll be watching for one of these critters dragging an anvil

Really interesting piece, and I really like your approach to the hands on facet on sword study. I have never fully grasped the metallurgy end of things, and really admire those here who are so well versed in that perspective. It definitely adds new dimension in understanding and evaluating the weapons.

I think you and Fernando bring neverending fascination into these threads with the incredibly eclectic things you guys find! Somehow it makes the discussions more three dimensional. Thank you!

All the best,
Jim

Atlantia · 19th August 2008, 07:13 PM

P.S.

Love the 'Stonehenge' rollers moving method!

A. G. Maisey · 20th August 2008, 10:10 AM

Looks like you scored well here.

Best anvil I ever used was one at Hawkesbury Agricultural College, when I was being taught by Gordon Blackwell. Beautiful old English one, 350pounds, and had almost no work since the day it had been made.

You get a good big anvil, it does half the work for you.

My own anvil is only 75 kilos, and made in Singapore. Not much of an anvil, but it does the job. I've got another little no-name anvil that I've had the work table precision ground on, that I can use for getting blades really true.

How do you intend to mount this anvil? Might be a bit difficult to get a big enough hardwood stump. The stump needs to support the full base, and should go about 3 feet into the ground. You set the anvil height so that when you stand beside it with a clenched fist, your knuckles just brush the work table.

The whole thing needs to be square, and the horn goes to your left.

Anyway, nice anvil.

katana · 20th August 2008, 08:01 PM

Thank you all for your comments.

Atlantia, the ancient technological 'rollers' work a treat

This 'beasty' was down in a household cellar....and was a logistic nightmare to get out, a 'counter balanced hoist', make-shift supports and alot of grunting ...eventually 'eased' the anvil through a small window

Ah, the neighbours, fortunately they are used to my 'eccentricities'....but I will have to 'limit' the noise pollution : ....well I'll try

Apparently attaching large magnets (either end) and placing heavy chain around its 'waist' helps to greatly reduce vibration.

My forge is 'under construction', I'm using a cast iron BBQ which I will line with refractory, a steel pipe will be fitted (drilled) to direct air. I have already got a little compressor to provide the 'blow'. I have already started to search 'boot fairs' and already have a number of hammers, files etc (all dirt cheap

)

Hi A G Maisey,

this anvil is around 250kgs ( 519 lbs) in weight

the largest I have found in this pattern, so far, is actually smaller than mine.
The anvil's manufacturer is 'Peter Wright' , so the anvil is circa 1860....I do not know when they ceased trading. It also seems that 'Peter Wright' produced quality anvils that are still covetted today. (I found a web site dated 2003 that was offering a 350lbs version for $1400

) It has a lovely 'ring' and rebound. I was going to mount it on railway sleepers. I dont think I will be able to sink the base 3 foot though, I think it will be a case of trail and error getting the platform and sound deadening 'measures' sorted. Have you ever posted any of your work ? I would love to see a few pictures

Kind Regards David

Atlantia · 20th August 2008, 08:47 PM

Its a beauty David!
How the hell did you come by it? LOL, did the seller deliver? I know the ancient Celts ran the Stonehenge sarcens down from Wales on rollers but.........
;-)

Regards
Gene

lemmythesmith · 20th August 2008, 09:19 PM

Hi David, nice anvil!! About the size I had when I had a proper shop not just 10' by 7' in a garage! The anvil I use now for bladesmithing is one I made myself from scrap, last thing I ever made using my power hammer before I sold up-weighs about 70lb so I can move it about no problem. If you make a block from sleepers it will be enough to stabilize your anvil without sinking a foundation. Thick lead sheet under the anvil base can help with noise reduction. My forge is fabricated from sheet, air blast supplied by a car radiator fan (with extra fins) mounted on the shaft of a bench grinder then covered by a tupperware cake container-crude but it works!! The tuyere is made from 50mm plates with 20mm holes through them then welded together.
Here's some pics from sunny Wigan, Lancashire...

A. G. Maisey · 21st August 2008, 01:42 AM

My forge is a truck wheel, and the the blower is an old vacuum cleaner.Its lined with just ordinary garden earth, which is fine for general forging, but if welding, it is a bit easier if you create a fire hole using fire bricks, but its not essential, no matter what you use to line the forge, you're going to get clinker, so you just need to learn how to manage the fire. The earth is pretty clayey, so it bakes up hard anyway.Use fire bricks, and they do burn out and need replacing fairly regularly, use earth and you just pick up a bit from the garden. If you're welding, you need a good depth of fire between the job and the tuyere.

If you cannot get it properly mounted on a stump, you might like to consider sitting it in a bed of sand. I've never used this, but I know people who have, and they reckon it cuts noise down pretty well. A properly mounted anvil---on a stump--- really doesn't create much noise at all.Think about it:- what you are hitting is material that is already soft because its been in the fire, its not like you're actually hitting the anvil. When you're working at black heat there might be a bit of noise, but its not really excessive. You're going to be using 2lb and 4lb hammers mostly, and if you have a striker, maybe a 10 or 12 lb hammer, and you're using them on a big anvil. That's a lot different to using an oliver or a power hammer.Put it this way:- your blower will probably make more noise, and whatever you do, it won't be as bad as one of those blower things people use to clean up leaves.

Here are some keris blades I've made.

Scroll down to my name and click on the index pics.

http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/PBXIIempus.html

katana · 21st August 2008, 01:21 PM

Lemmy, I really like the idea of creating your own anvil ....and then using it to create other things

Do you use it to forge blades ? Do you use coke as the primary fuel in the forge ? I have seen plans to create a forge that uses waste oil and is clean burning. Not certain if it would be a good choice as I thought carbon from the coke/coal/charcoal found its way into the work piece?

'A G', thank you for your suggestions and the link. Those blades are beauties

If I can produce something half as good ...I will be a very happy man. Are you 'self taught' or did you learn from another bladesmith?

Regards David

A. G. Maisey · 21st August 2008, 02:08 PM

Thanks for your compliment, David.

My first teacher was Gordon Blackwell, who is probably one of the last traditional smiths in Australia.

My second teacher was Empu Suparman Supawijaya, of the Kraton Surakarta, Central Jawa.Empu Suparman passed away in 1995.

However, I taught myself to weld damascus, and I had made my first keris before Empu Suparman accepted me as his pupil.

Apart from these two gentlemen, I have learnt much from other smiths, pandai keris, and especially from Empu Pauzan Pusposukadgo of Surakarta.

lemmythesmith · 21st August 2008, 10:26 PM

Hi David, my forgework consists of bladesmithing only these days!! I used to be a professional smith who specialised in blades but did anything from making nails, repairing farm machinery, wrought ironwork etc. I use coke as fuel-"smithy breeze" also known as "three washed coke" pretty small pieces about 10-20mm, burns reasonably clean but as Alan mentioned you get clinker. Good fire management is half the battle!!
If you put "meteoric patrem" into the search there's a couple of my pieces and some fellow smiths work too.... Forging keris is fairly new to me my background is Nihon-To based, tamahagane, yakiba and hada!

VANDOO · 22nd August 2008, 07:04 AM

CONGRADULATIONS ON THE ANVIL EVEN VULCAN WOULD BE PROUD TO USE ONE LIKE THAT.

katana · 22nd August 2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Thanks for your compliment, David.

My first teacher was Gordon Blackwell, who is probably one of the last traditional smiths in Australia.

My second teacher was Empu Suparman Supawijaya, of the Kraton Surakarta, Central Jawa.Empu Suparman passed away in 1995.

However, I taught myself to weld damascus, and I had made my first keris before Empu Suparman accepted me as his pupil.

Apart from these two gentlemen, I have learnt much from other smiths, pandai keris, and especially from Empu Pauzan Pusposukadgo of Surakarta.

Wow, what a privilege to have the opportunity to learn from such great teachers...

and for you having the talent to be accepted by Empu Suparman

I'm very impressed

Kind Regards David

katana · 22nd August 2008, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemmythesmith

Hi David, my forgework consists of bladesmithing only these days!! I used to be a professional smith who specialised in blades but did anything from making nails, repairing farm machinery, wrought ironwork etc. I use coke as fuel-"smithy breeze" also known as "three washed coke" pretty small pieces about 10-20mm, burns reasonably clean but as Alan mentioned you get clinker. Good fire management is half the battle!!
If you put "meteoric patrem" into the search there's a couple of my pieces and some fellow smiths work too.... Forging keris is fairly new to me my background is Nihon-To based, tamahagane, yakiba and hada!

Thanks Lemmy,
the link is
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...0&page=3&pp=30

Excellent work, love the blade....another 'talented' formite

I would really like to see some of your Nihon pieces, could you post some pics ? Did you produce your own tamahagane ? a skilled art in itself. After reading the comments in the thread above I am beginning to think that using gas or similar for the forge may be better. There is a guy in Britain that has made a 'waste oil' furnace, capable of melting iron. Others have modified his plans for use as a forge. It is clean burning and gets up to 'heat' very quickly. There would be several advantages, the cost of the fuel (waste oil) is incredibily cheap or even free. The components to create the forge can be made from scrap and 'recycled' parts, again keeping costs down. An added advantage is that it could still be used as a furnace to cast crossguards, pommels etc with copper, brass, bronze or even iron.
http://artfulbodgermetalcasting.com/3.html

Kind Regards David

katana · 22nd August 2008, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Its a beauty David!
How the hell did you come by it? LOL, did the seller deliver? I know the ancient Celts ran the Stonehenge sarcens down from Wales on rollers but.........
;-)

Regards
Gene

Hi Gene,
would you believe I got the anvil for FREE

The 'cost' was ...for me to organise and plan to remove it from a house cellar, the hire of a suitable hoist, 'convincing' a number of family members to help me, car ramps, timber, two cars, a small trailer, 2 gallons of sweat and an aching jaw (because of the permanent 'grin' on my face)......a SMALL price to pay. I know I am incredibily lucky and the previous owners generosity (a rare commodity) is greatly appreciated.

Thor must have been smiling on me that day.

The scaffold pole rollers were indeed inspired by our ancient forefathers and work perfectly.

Kind Regards David

katana · 22nd August 2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

CONGRADULATIONS ON THE ANVIL EVEN VULCAN WOULD BE PROUD TO USE ONE LIKE THAT.

Thank you Vandoo,
I just hope that Vulcan will not think the anvil is 'wasted' on me

Regards David

A. G. Maisey · 22nd August 2008, 03:34 PM

David, I've used coal that I coked myself, manufactured coke, charcoal, and gas. I've also used an oxy torch as a heat source for forging, and propane and oxy blown into a brick enclosure as a heat source for forging.

I like coke the best because I find it the easiest to work with.

Gas is very, very easy. Welding in a gas forge is like making a cake, but easier. Anybody can weld in gas. However, I personally do not like gas, and I have never been able to heat treat successfully with gas. Coke is very easy to heat treat with.

In my opinion the best set up is to have a gas forge to weld with, and a coke forge for all other work.

Rick · 22nd August 2008, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Thank you Vandoo,
I just hope that Vulcan will not think the anvil is 'wasted' on me

Regards David

It wasn't made by ACME ?!?

http://home.nc.rr.com/tuco/looney/acme/anvils.html

Wiley gets all of his stuff from them ...

Congrats !

katana · 23rd August 2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

David,
Gas is very, very easy. Welding in a gas forge is like making a cake, but easier. Anybody can weld in gas. However, I personally do not like gas, and I have never been able to heat treat successfully with gas. Coke is very easy to heat treat with.

In my opinion the best set up is to have a gas forge to weld with, and a coke forge for all other work.

Thank you very much for the advice Alan, I think that is a good compromise between 'traditional' and 'practical'

David

katana · 23rd August 2008, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

It wasn't made by ACME ?!?

http://home.nc.rr.com/tuco/looney/acme/anvils.html

Wiley gets all of his stuff from them ...

Congrats !

I wonder if ACME manufactured this Californian road sign

BEEP BEEP !!

.

Bill M · 23rd August 2008, 03:03 PM

Anne wants to know if you are actually going to use the anvil, or it is extra seating for your garden?

Maybe both!

katana · 23rd August 2008, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Anne wants to know if you are actually going to use the anvil, or it is extra seating for your garden?

Maybe both!

Hi Bill

,
Trust a women to find a 'domestic' use for a industrial object

What colour 'scatter cushions' does Anne suggest

Regards to you both

David

19th August 2008, 01:26 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	It's pointed...its metal...but not quite a weapon. Hope you don't mind me posting this....but I am very excited about it When I first joined the forum, I mentioned that I would like to learn bladesmithing.....'hands on' knowledge in blade manufacture can only increase my overall knowledge. The item is pointed and made of metal and if you have ever watched 'Wile E Coyote' trying in vain to squash the 'Roadrunner' with one of these....you will know, it can be loosely described as a weapon The Anvil is HUGE 40" from the point of the 'beak' to the opposite end. Ideal area for blades. I am incredibly lucky to have obtained this, likely very old (could be earlier than 19th C) and very unusual because of its size. All comments or advice will be very welcome Regards David . Attached Images

20th August 2008, 09:19 PM	#9
lemmythesmith Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 93	Hi David, nice anvil!! About the size I had when I had a proper shop not just 10' by 7' in a garage! The anvil I use now for bladesmithing is one I made myself from scrap, last thing I ever made using my power hammer before I sold up-weighs about 70lb so I can move it about no problem. If you make a block from sleepers it will be enough to stabilize your anvil without sinking a foundation. Thick lead sheet under the anvil base can help with noise reduction. My forge is fabricated from sheet, air blast supplied by a car radiator fan (with extra fins) mounted on the shaft of a bench grinder then covered by a tupperware cake container-crude but it works!! The tuyere is made from 50mm plates with 20mm holes through them then welded together. Here's some pics from sunny Wigan, Lancashire... Attached Images

19th August 2008, 03:05 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Fantastic. remember how people used to make their own brickwork BBQs? Nice one of those with careful ventilation would produce plenty enough heat to get a sword bar hot enough to work. Probobly have to use heatproof bricks as you're gonna use it regularly. Use an old wrought iron grate out of a coal fire (set in of course). boot sales are a great source of BIG old hammers of various sizes. Of course the neighbours will love you!

19th August 2008, 05:44 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	LOL!! That is great David! Love the analogy about Wile Coyote and the roadrunner We're in the desert outside Tucson right now, and there are coyotes serenading at night, and the roadrunners are indeed very strange birds. I do recall good ole Wile with his trusty anvil, and now I'll be watching for one of these critters dragging an anvil Really interesting piece, and I really like your approach to the hands on facet on sword study. I have never fully grasped the metallurgy end of things, and really admire those here who are so well versed in that perspective. It definitely adds new dimension in understanding and evaluating the weapons. I think you and Fernando bring neverending fascination into these threads with the incredibly eclectic things you guys find! Somehow it makes the discussions more three dimensional. Thank you! All the best, Jim

19th August 2008, 07:13 PM	#5
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	P.S. Love the 'Stonehenge' rollers moving method!

20th August 2008, 10:10 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Looks like you scored well here. Best anvil I ever used was one at Hawkesbury Agricultural College, when I was being taught by Gordon Blackwell. Beautiful old English one, 350pounds, and had almost no work since the day it had been made. You get a good big anvil, it does half the work for you. My own anvil is only 75 kilos, and made in Singapore. Not much of an anvil, but it does the job. I've got another little no-name anvil that I've had the work table precision ground on, that I can use for getting blades really true. How do you intend to mount this anvil? Might be a bit difficult to get a big enough hardwood stump. The stump needs to support the full base, and should go about 3 feet into the ground. You set the anvil height so that when you stand beside it with a clenched fist, your knuckles just brush the work table. The whole thing needs to be square, and the horn goes to your left. Anyway, nice anvil.

20th August 2008, 08:01 PM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Thank you all for your comments. Atlantia, the ancient technological 'rollers' work a treat This 'beasty' was down in a household cellar....and was a logistic nightmare to get out, a 'counter balanced hoist', make-shift supports and alot of grunting ...eventually 'eased' the anvil through a small window Ah, the neighbours, fortunately they are used to my 'eccentricities'....but I will have to 'limit' the noise pollution : ....well I'll try Apparently attaching large magnets (either end) and placing heavy chain around its 'waist' helps to greatly reduce vibration. My forge is 'under construction', I'm using a cast iron BBQ which I will line with refractory, a steel pipe will be fitted (drilled) to direct air. I have already got a little compressor to provide the 'blow'. I have already started to search 'boot fairs' and already have a number of hammers, files etc (all dirt cheap ) Hi A G Maisey, this anvil is around 250kgs ( 519 lbs) in weight the largest I have found in this pattern, so far, is actually smaller than mine. The anvil's manufacturer is 'Peter Wright' , so the anvil is circa 1860....I do not know when they ceased trading. It also seems that 'Peter Wright' produced quality anvils that are still covetted today. (I found a web site dated 2003 that was offering a 350lbs version for $1400 ) It has a lovely 'ring' and rebound. I was going to mount it on railway sleepers. I dont think I will be able to sink the base 3 foot though, I think it will be a case of trail and error getting the platform and sound deadening 'measures' sorted. Have you ever posted any of your work ? I would love to see a few pictures Kind Regards David

20th August 2008, 08:47 PM	#8
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Its a beauty David! How the hell did you come by it? LOL, did the seller deliver? I know the ancient Celts ran the Stonehenge sarcens down from Wales on rollers but......... ;-) Regards Gene

21st August 2008, 01:42 AM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	My forge is a truck wheel, and the the blower is an old vacuum cleaner.Its lined with just ordinary garden earth, which is fine for general forging, but if welding, it is a bit easier if you create a fire hole using fire bricks, but its not essential, no matter what you use to line the forge, you're going to get clinker, so you just need to learn how to manage the fire. The earth is pretty clayey, so it bakes up hard anyway.Use fire bricks, and they do burn out and need replacing fairly regularly, use earth and you just pick up a bit from the garden. If you're welding, you need a good depth of fire between the job and the tuyere. If you cannot get it properly mounted on a stump, you might like to consider sitting it in a bed of sand. I've never used this, but I know people who have, and they reckon it cuts noise down pretty well. A properly mounted anvil---on a stump--- really doesn't create much noise at all.Think about it:- what you are hitting is material that is already soft because its been in the fire, its not like you're actually hitting the anvil. When you're working at black heat there might be a bit of noise, but its not really excessive. You're going to be using 2lb and 4lb hammers mostly, and if you have a striker, maybe a 10 or 12 lb hammer, and you're using them on a big anvil. That's a lot different to using an oliver or a power hammer.Put it this way:- your blower will probably make more noise, and whatever you do, it won't be as bad as one of those blower things people use to clean up leaves. Here are some keris blades I've made. Scroll down to my name and click on the index pics. http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/PBXIIempus.html

21st August 2008, 01:21 PM	#11
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Lemmy, I really like the idea of creating your own anvil ....and then using it to create other things Do you use it to forge blades ? Do you use coke as the primary fuel in the forge ? I have seen plans to create a forge that uses waste oil and is clean burning. Not certain if it would be a good choice as I thought carbon from the coke/coal/charcoal found its way into the work piece? 'A G', thank you for your suggestions and the link. Those blades are beauties If I can produce something half as good ...I will be a very happy man. Are you 'self taught' or did you learn from another bladesmith? Regards David

21st August 2008, 02:08 PM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Thanks for your compliment, David. My first teacher was Gordon Blackwell, who is probably one of the last traditional smiths in Australia. My second teacher was Empu Suparman Supawijaya, of the Kraton Surakarta, Central Jawa.Empu Suparman passed away in 1995. However, I taught myself to weld damascus, and I had made my first keris before Empu Suparman accepted me as his pupil. Apart from these two gentlemen, I have learnt much from other smiths, pandai keris, and especially from Empu Pauzan Pusposukadgo of Surakarta.

21st August 2008, 10:26 PM	#13
lemmythesmith Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 93	Hi David, my forgework consists of bladesmithing only these days!! I used to be a professional smith who specialised in blades but did anything from making nails, repairing farm machinery, wrought ironwork etc. I use coke as fuel-"smithy breeze" also known as "three washed coke" pretty small pieces about 10-20mm, burns reasonably clean but as Alan mentioned you get clinker. Good fire management is half the battle!! If you put "meteoric patrem" into the search there's a couple of my pieces and some fellow smiths work too.... Forging keris is fairly new to me my background is Nihon-To based, tamahagane, yakiba and hada!

22nd August 2008, 07:04 AM	#14
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	CONGRADULATIONS ON THE ANVIL EVEN VULCAN WOULD BE PROUD TO USE ONE LIKE THAT.

22nd August 2008, 03:34 PM	#19
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	David, I've used coal that I coked myself, manufactured coke, charcoal, and gas. I've also used an oxy torch as a heat source for forging, and propane and oxy blown into a brick enclosure as a heat source for forging. I like coke the best because I find it the easiest to work with. Gas is very, very easy. Welding in a gas forge is like making a cake, but easier. Anybody can weld in gas. However, I personally do not like gas, and I have never been able to heat treat successfully with gas. Coke is very easy to heat treat with. In my opinion the best set up is to have a gas forge to weld with, and a coke forge for all other work.

23rd August 2008, 03:03 PM	#23
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Anne wants to know if you are actually going to use the anvil, or it is extra seating for your garden? Maybe both!