Relic Spear

Rick · 28th February 2016, 05:20 PM

Up for possible identification; a spear head found on coastal Cape Cod Massachusetts. It's not much to look at now with the point gone and the socket bashed in from being used for some purpose other than martial use.

Length is about 14 inches.
Width 1.75 inches at the widest point.
The socket must have been about 1.75 inches diameter before the end was bashed in.
The blade tapers from 3/8's to less than 1/4 inch at the break; is thicker in the center tapering to an edge that was once pretty sharp.
Weight is 542 gm.
There are the remains of at least two fullers on one side; the other side is so pitted I can't tell whether it had fullers or not.
This thing is very very old. It is not a whaling spear of any known (to me) type.

So, what have we here; a pike head, Viking spear?
Ideas and comments will be much appreciated.

edit
I'm thinking its an American colonial boarding pike that has had the langets repurposed.

Hotspur · 29th February 2016, 02:54 AM

The socket diameter is much too large to be a typical martial use spear or half pike but full pikes have hafts that wide. Boarding pikes of the colonial and later periods typically have very slim awl points.

Cheers

GC

Rick · 29th February 2016, 04:53 PM

I don't know, Glenn.

The top one in the picture is a 1797 model 1(iirc) US Naval boarding pike with a leaf shaped blade.

I would expect that privateers and some merchantmen/whalers would have also carried boarding pikes as part of their defensive arms.
I admit I'm fishing more than a bit here; but there must have been some variation in pikes that were made during that time; many must have come from local smithys.

Hotspur · 2nd March 2016, 04:01 PM

Did 18th century half pikes (and boarding pikes) have 2" wide hafts? Seems a bit hefty but my next would be my first.

Cheers

GC

Rick · 2nd March 2016, 10:51 PM

Pretty surprised by the lack of interest here, oh well.
Here is a shot of the socket (or what's left of it) for an idea of dimension.
Thanks very much for your input Glenn.

I guess I'll have to file it under colonial martial miscellania/poking weapons barring further input on the subject.

M ELEY · 3rd March 2016, 03:25 AM

I wouldn't say lack of interest, but some old relics are hard to pin down. I agree with Glenn that it doesn't appear to be a traditional boarding pike (and I see 'nautical/pirate' in everything!!). It has quite a bit of aging/corrosion to it, so dating is difficult. if you picked it up in Nova Scotia, I might have jumped at 'Viking', but as far as I know, Nordic spears didn't have langets.

I think Glenn had it when he said it was a pike head from Europe, probably very early (17th c.), likely brought over by the early settlers. Back in the early colonial times, the ships were packed with traditional items/weapons from the continent. Check out Harold Peterson's books on early American colonial weapons of the period. Nice find, BTW! Getting some provenance in writing that it was found here and not a bring-back would increase the value to collectors.

Would just like to add a reminder- The precursor to the boarding axe was the spike ax/trade 'tomnahawk', as the ship's manifests used to read. The precursor to the cutlass was the hanger. The precursor to the boarding pike was the pike, which came over in ship's holds to defend installations, forts, and ships of that earlier period. Not a boarding pike in sheer definition, but it could have easily seen sea service.
Mark

fernando · 3rd March 2016, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

... I guess I'll have to file it under colonial martial miscellania/poking weapons barring further input on the subject.

And toss it over this side of the pond, so that i may become its host family

.

Rick · 3rd March 2016, 05:35 PM

Thanks for the further input from all you guys.
It's not mine to chuck your way 'Nando

; it came from the same restaurateur who plunked this (seen below) down on the bar top; he asked me to identify this $50.00 sabre about a year ago.

Needless to say I envy his consistent good fortune.

Still, it's my favorite watering hole.

fernando · 3rd March 2016, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

... Still, it's my favorite watering hole.

Hoping that 'watering' is a figure of speech; we don't want your piping system to get rusty

Hotspur · 3rd March 2016, 09:53 PM

Well, your picture with the tape tells a different story than a 1.75 socket.

You obviously don't need to waste your time on the $50 saber. It is obviously worth no more than shipping costs to me

Cheers

GC

Rick · 3rd March 2016, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotspur

Well, your picture with the tape tells a different story than a 1.75 socket.

You obviously don't need to waste your time on the $50 saber. It is obviously worth no more than shipping costs to me

Cheers

GC

I think I measured that dimension after returning home from the aforementioned watering hole.

The part about langets having been removed was my guess so we'll never really know for sure.

That rusty old sabre...meh.

Thanks again gentlemen.

28th February 2016, 05:20 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Relic Spear Up for possible identification; a spear head found on coastal Cape Cod Massachusetts. It's not much to look at now with the point gone and the socket bashed in from being used for some purpose other than martial use. Length is about 14 inches. Width 1.75 inches at the widest point. The socket must have been about 1.75 inches diameter before the end was bashed in. The blade tapers from 3/8's to less than 1/4 inch at the break; is thicker in the center tapering to an edge that was once pretty sharp. Weight is 542 gm. There are the remains of at least two fullers on one side; the other side is so pitted I can't tell whether it had fullers or not. This thing is very very old. It is not a whaling spear of any known (to me) type. So, what have we here; a pike head, Viking spear? Ideas and comments will be much appreciated. edit I'm thinking its an American colonial boarding pike that has had the langets repurposed. Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 29th February 2016 at 12:32 AM.

29th February 2016, 04:53 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	I don't know, Glenn. The top one in the picture is a 1797 model 1(iirc) US Naval boarding pike with a leaf shaped blade. I would expect that privateers and some merchantmen/whalers would have also carried boarding pikes as part of their defensive arms. I admit I'm fishing more than a bit here; but there must have been some variation in pikes that were made during that time; many must have come from local smithys. Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 29th February 2016 at 05:04 PM.

2nd March 2016, 10:51 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Pretty surprised by the lack of interest here, oh well. Here is a shot of the socket (or what's left of it) for an idea of dimension. Thanks very much for your input Glenn. I guess I'll have to file it under colonial martial miscellania/poking weapons barring further input on the subject. Attached Images

3rd March 2016, 03:25 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	I wouldn't say lack of interest, but some old relics are hard to pin down. I agree with Glenn that it doesn't appear to be a traditional boarding pike (and I see 'nautical/pirate' in everything!!). It has quite a bit of aging/corrosion to it, so dating is difficult. if you picked it up in Nova Scotia, I might have jumped at 'Viking', but as far as I know, Nordic spears didn't have langets. I think Glenn had it when he said it was a pike head from Europe, probably very early (17th c.), likely brought over by the early settlers. Back in the early colonial times, the ships were packed with traditional items/weapons from the continent. Check out Harold Peterson's books on early American colonial weapons of the period. Nice find, BTW! Getting some provenance in writing that it was found here and not a bring-back would increase the value to collectors. Would just like to add a reminder- The precursor to the boarding axe was the spike ax/trade 'tomnahawk', as the ship's manifests used to read. The precursor to the cutlass was the hanger. The precursor to the boarding pike was the pike, which came over in ship's holds to defend installations, forts, and ships of that earlier period. Not a boarding pike in sheer definition, but it could have easily seen sea service. Mark Last edited by M ELEY; 3rd March 2016 at 03:47 AM.

3rd March 2016, 05:35 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Thanks for the further input from all you guys. It's not mine to chuck your way 'Nando ; it came from the same restaurateur who plunked this (seen below) down on the bar top; he asked me to identify this $50.00 sabre about a year ago. Needless to say I envy his consistent good fortune. Still, it's my favorite watering hole. Attached Images

29th February 2016, 02:54 AM	#2
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 498	The socket diameter is much too large to be a typical martial use spear or half pike but full pikes have hafts that wide. Boarding pikes of the colonial and later periods typically have very slim awl points. Cheers GC

2nd March 2016, 04:01 PM	#4
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 498	Did 18th century half pikes (and boarding pikes) have 2" wide hafts? Seems a bit hefty but my next would be my first. Cheers GC

3rd March 2016, 09:53 PM	#10
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 498	Well, your picture with the tape tells a different story than a 1.75 socket. You obviously don't need to waste your time on the $50 saber. It is obviously worth no more than shipping costs to me Cheers GC