Two new Gunongs

Rafngard · 24th July 2016, 05:05 AM

Hello All,

So it took me forever, but I finally got around to taking pics of these two new (to me) gunongs. The chatoyancy of the wood on the handles of both is stunning, and I suspect both blades would benefit from a proper etching.

The first one is I think 1940s? In person it's HUGE. I wasn't expecting it to be so big, but wow. There is some loss to the metal (aluminum?) inlays on the guard and the ferrule, as well as some loss to the (bakelite?) yellow inlays. I kind of love the okir on the blade itself. The fittings on the scabbard are aluminum, with what I think are copper pins.

The second one I think might be a bit older (just a guess). I suspect the fittings are silver, and all have nice and subtle okir work. I really love the blade on this one, with it's pointy luks.

Any and all comments and corrections on these would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Leif

Rafngard · 24th July 2016, 05:07 AM

More of # 1

Rafngard · 24th July 2016, 05:12 AM

...and also a family photo, because I'm a dork :-P

Battara · 24th July 2016, 07:32 AM

Greetings.

The first one I would agree with your age assessment. Yes the fittings are indeed aluminum.

Your second one I might place between the 1920s-30s. The metal fittings look to be silver over copper (I see copper remnants).

It looks like you are becoming a gunong collector - fascinating aren't they?

Sajen · 24th July 2016, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Your second one I might place between the 1920s-30s. The metal fittings look to be silver over copper (I see copper remnants).

Hello Jose,

I would kindly and carefully disagree with you. The sharp and pointy luks, the okir at the fittings and the silver plating let me think that this gunong is younger as the the one with the aluminium fittings. But like always I could be wrong.

Best regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 24th July 2016, 09:51 AM

Hello Leif,

two very nice additions to your growing collection. The big one one with the broad blade and aluminium fittings is a real beauty. I really like this type of gunong with the very nice okir engravings on the blade and this eye-catching bulky ferrule worked from horn, bakalite (I am also not sure about the used material here) and aluminium. When I am you I would polish the aluminium fittings at the scabbard, you can get them very shiny, look to my thread ( http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=gunong) post #8, I've used fine steel wool with metal polish.

The other one is like said in my opinion later but has a very nice blade. Be careful with polishing the fittings that you don't rub away the silver plating.

You assembled a nice collection of gunongs there, I would be happy when I could add each piece to my own collection!

Best regards,
Detlef

kai · 24th July 2016, 12:36 PM

Quote:

I would be happy when I could add each piece to my own collection!

Hey, that's my line, Detlef!

Hello Leif,

Thanks for posting these nice additions to your collection!

I also especially like the large one. It seems that also the aluminium was (silver?)-plated; I'm not sure what is needed to plate aluminium - that may help to narrow down the time frame.

While I usually am not that fond of pointy luk, this blade does look crafted really well. I'd love to see the blade stained - if laminated, the pattern may confirm that it was forged to shape rather than done by stock removal! BTW, I believe the hilt will look even better if you keep nourishing the wood over several weeks.

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 24th July 2016, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

It seems that also the aluminium was (silver?)-plated; I'm not sure what is needed to plate aluminium..

Hello Kai,

I doubt that it was ever silver plated. And the only way I am aware to silver-plate aluminium is electroplating. And I don't think that it was a used technic to this time.

Regards,
Detlef

kai · 24th July 2016, 03:39 PM

Hello Detlef,

Quote:

I doubt that it was ever silver plated. And the only way I am aware to silver-plate aluminium is electroplating. And I don't think that it was a used technic to this time.

Maybe we rather have to adjust the estimated time frame?

Have a look at pic #14 (the tip/finial fixed with the copper nails): This looks like 2 metals to me and any other metal plating on aluminium is even more unlikely IMHO. Quality gunong have been produced throughout the 20th century, and contrary to many other ethnographic blades quality is not per se correlated with age. The dagger certainly seems to have some age - I don't have any data on the earliest examples of this style though. Maybe just the scabbard got replaced later? (Craftsmanship of the scabbard does look a bit subpar compared to the dagger IMVHO.)

Regards,
Kai

Rafngard · 24th July 2016, 06:43 PM

Thank you all for you kind comments.

There were a few I wanted to respond to

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

BTW, I believe the hilt will look even better if you keep nourishing the wood over several weeks.

Hello Kai,

I'm not quite sure what this process would involve. I don't suppose there's a thread somewhere that explains this process?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

I also especially like the large one. It seems that also the aluminium was (silver?)-plated; I'm not sure what is needed to plate aluminium

It actually looks a bit more like, maybe corrosion? in person. But I'm far from an expert, but I could be wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Your second one I might place between the 1920s-30s. The metal fittings look to be silver over copper (I see copper remnants).

It looks like you are becoming a gunong collector - fascinating aren't they?

Hello Battara

Yes, silver over copper makes sense. I hadn't noticed the copper tones before. It's amazing what photos can bring out.

And yeah, the gunong bug has definitely bit. I love these things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

You assembled a nice collection of gunongs there, I would be happy when I could add each piece to my own collection!

Hello Detlef,

I think this high praise indeed! Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

When I am you I would polish the aluminium fittings at the scabbard, you can get them very shiny, look to my thread [...] post #8, I've used fine steel wool with metal polish.

You know, it never occurred to me to try to polish the aluminium. I'll have to give this a try when I find some time.

Thanks,
Leif

Battara · 25th July 2016, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Jose,

I would kindly and carefully disagree with you. The sharp and pointy luks, the okir at the fittings and the silver plating let me think that this gunong is younger as the the one with the aluminium fittings. But like always I could be wrong.

Best regards,
Detlef

Detlev, I actually should have added the words "at the earliest" because, although I do think that it is a little earlier than the aluminum one, you are right in that it is not a very old one at all.

David · 25th July 2016, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Detlev, I actually should have added the words "at the earliest" because, although I do think that it is a little earlier than the aluminum one, you are right in that it is not a very old one at all.

Interesting. I would think just the opposite, the the curvy blade is actually the newer one. I would think that the earliest that one would be in the 1960's, though it could be later that that. With those pointy luks and the quality of that metal work there is no way this is a pre-WWII blade.
The other one is certainly post WWII. I would think maybe 1950-70s.

Ian · 25th July 2016, 02:48 AM

David:

I agree with your observations. Both are second half of 20th C, no earlier than 1960s and probably later.

Ian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Interesting. I would think just the opposite, the the curvy blade is actually the newer one. I would think that the earliest that one would be in the 1960's, though it could be later that that. With those pointy luks and the quality of that metal work there is no way this is a pre-WWII blade.
The other one is certainly post WWII. I would think maybe 1950-70s.

Battara · 25th July 2016, 07:27 AM

I guess I was thinking of my Datu Piang kris with the pointy waves - that is turn of the 20th century.

That may be an anomaly. According to Federico, you would be right in the age estimates.

I will say that the one with the pointy waves is probably from Mindanao.

Sajen · 25th July 2016, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

I agree with your observations. Both are second half of 20th C, no earlier than 1960s and probably later.

Hello Ian,

I am as well agree like stated before that curved one is the later piece and as well with your time frame given but think that this gunongs where aluminium is used are from 1930-1950 as time frame, my three examples where aluminium was used for the fittings have all laminated and sturdy blades and also the use from bakelite (when it is bakelite) would confirm this.

Regards,
Detlef

Marcus · 25th July 2016, 09:27 PM

I was think mid-20th century.

Sajen · 25th July 2016, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus

I was think mid-20th century.

Would guess second half of 20th century, 60ties-70ties.

Regards,
Detlef

Rafngard · 6th December 2016, 02:23 AM

I continue to be bit by the gunong bug. Two new ones. I'll snap some better photos of these two when I have better light.

The Farthest on the left. Post WWII (?), MOP handle, and my first with good filigree work, and a sandwich guard.

3rd in from the left, with no scabbard. An older one. Brass fittings.

Have fun,
Leif

Rafngard · 6th December 2016, 02:26 AM

Oh!
Make that three since the last group photo.

Second from the right, one of Lew's old ones. Aluminum fittings, post WWII.

Thanks,
Leif

Sajen · 6th December 2016, 07:10 PM

Hello Leif,

have seen all three before somewhere else (

) and get outbid (

) by the one without scabbard. And when I am not would have been short by money the one with MOP handle would rest now in my collection!

Would like to see more pictures from this one.
Nice to see that they in good hands.

Regards,
Detlef

Ferguson · 6th December 2016, 10:58 PM

They are addictive aren't they?
Very nice collection!
Steve

russel · 7th December 2016, 02:49 AM

Nice group photo, I will have to get mine out for a family portrait too! The third from the left is the standout example (in my opinion), the fourth from the left is rather nice too.

Congratulations, you a building quite a good collection.

Russel

Rafngard · 7th December 2016, 04:50 AM

Thank you all for your kind words on my small collection.

Quote:

Originally Posted by russel

The third from the left is the standout example (in my opinion), the fourth from the left is rather nice too.

Ah, you're a fan of the old ones I see. The fourth from the right was previously posted here.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20261

And comparing the last photo in that tread, I really need to polish the copper on that one :-P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferguson

They are addictive aren't they?

"Addiction" is certainly a word my fiance has used before. fortunately she's very tolerant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferguson

Very nice collection!

High praise coming from you tito gunong!

Thanks,
Leif

Rafngard · 7th December 2016, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Nice to see that they in good hands.

I consider this high praise coming from you! I can't count the number of times I've drooled looking at pictures of your collection!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

And when I am not would have been short by money the one with MOP handle would rest now in my collection!

Would like to see more pictures from this one.

Ask and you shall receive!

Rafngard · 7th December 2016, 05:07 AM

And a few more...

Also, in looking at these close ups, I wonder if the ferrule is covered in gold foil, and the outer scabbard is perhaps bronze?

Thanks,
Leif

Sajen · 7th December 2016, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafngard

I consider this high praise coming from you! I can't count the number of times I've drooled looking at pictures of your collection!
Ask and you shall receive!

Hello Leif,

thank you for both!

I think that the fittings are either gold plated or washed, they look like this.

Regards,
Detlef

24th July 2016, 05:07 AM	#2
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 340	More pics More of # 1 Attached Images

24th July 2016, 05:12 AM	#3
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 340	Close ups of #2 ...and also a family photo, because I'm a dork :-P Attached Images

25th July 2016, 09:27 PM	#16
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	Insights on the date of this one? I was think mid-20th century. Attached Images

6th December 2016, 02:23 AM	#18
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 340	More family photos. I continue to be bit by the gunong bug. Two new ones. I'll snap some better photos of these two when I have better light. The Farthest on the left. Post WWII (?), MOP handle, and my first with good filigree work, and a sandwich guard. 3rd in from the left, with no scabbard. An older one. Brass fittings. Have fun, Leif Attached Images

7th December 2016, 02:49 AM	#22
russel Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Tasmania, Australia Posts: 236	Nice group photo, I will have to get mine out for a family portrait too! The third from the left is the standout example (in my opinion), the fourth from the left is rather nice too. Congratulations, you a building quite a good collection. Russel Last edited by russel; 7th December 2016 at 03:30 AM.

24th July 2016, 05:05 AM	#1
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 340	Two new Gunongs Hello All, So it took me forever, but I finally got around to taking pics of these two new (to me) gunongs. The chatoyancy of the wood on the handles of both is stunning, and I suspect both blades would benefit from a proper etching. The first one is I think 1940s? In person it's HUGE. I wasn't expecting it to be so big, but wow. There is some loss to the metal (aluminum?) inlays on the guard and the ferrule, as well as some loss to the (bakelite?) yellow inlays. I kind of love the okir on the blade itself. The fittings on the scabbard are aluminum, with what I think are copper pins. The second one I think might be a bit older (just a guess). I suspect the fittings are silver, and all have nice and subtle okir work. I really love the blade on this one, with it's pointy luks. Any and all comments and corrections on these would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Leif Attached Images

24th July 2016, 07:32 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Greetings. The first one I would agree with your age assessment. Yes the fittings are indeed aluminum. Your second one I might place between the 1920s-30s. The metal fittings look to be silver over copper (I see copper remnants). It looks like you are becoming a gunong collector - fascinating aren't they?

24th July 2016, 09:51 AM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,775	Hello Leif, two very nice additions to your growing collection. The big one one with the broad blade and aluminium fittings is a real beauty. I really like this type of gunong with the very nice okir engravings on the blade and this eye-catching bulky ferrule worked from horn, bakalite (I am also not sure about the used material here) and aluminium. When I am you I would polish the aluminium fittings at the scabbard, you can get them very shiny, look to my thread ( http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=gunong) post #8, I've used fine steel wool with metal polish. The other one is like said in my opinion later but has a very nice blade. Be careful with polishing the fittings that you don't rub away the silver plating. You assembled a nice collection of gunongs there, I would be happy when I could add each piece to my own collection! Best regards, Detlef

25th July 2016, 07:27 AM	#14
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	I guess I was thinking of my Datu Piang kris with the pointy waves - that is turn of the 20th century. That may be an anomaly. According to Federico, you would be right in the age estimates. I will say that the one with the pointy waves is probably from Mindanao.

6th December 2016, 02:26 AM	#19
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 340	Oh! Make that three since the last group photo. Second from the right, one of Lew's old ones. Aluminum fittings, post WWII. Thanks, Leif

6th December 2016, 07:10 PM	#20
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,775	Hello Leif, have seen all three before somewhere else ( ) and get outbid ( ) by the one without scabbard. And when I am not would have been short by money the one with MOP handle would rest now in my collection! Would like to see more pictures from this one. Nice to see that they in good hands. Regards, Detlef

6th December 2016, 10:58 PM	#21
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	They are addictive aren't they? Very nice collection! Steve

7th December 2016, 05:07 AM	#25
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 340	And a few more... Also, in looking at these close ups, I wonder if the ferrule is covered in gold foil, and the outer scabbard is perhaps bronze? Thanks, Leif Attached Images