Keris 1

scratch · 22nd January 2009, 12:40 AM

G'day

Age and origin if possible please.
Any other thoughts are also welcome.
I am a novice regarding keris so forbearence of my ignorance would be much appreciated.
Blade Length: 17 1/2 in (measured from aring end of ganja)

Kind regards,

Daniel

David · 22nd January 2009, 05:23 AM

Nice one Scratch. Probably Bali, but i wouldn't count out Lombok as it is often hard to tell the difference since Bali ruled over Lombok for many years. For me it's always dangerous to date a blade

, especially out of hand, but i think it is probably safe to place this one at least in the 19th century. The uwer looks new, but the rest of the dress seems to have some age. Beautiful wood on the sarong and a nice silver hilt.
I'll send you my address and you can pop it in the mail anytime.

scratch · 24th January 2009, 12:39 PM

Thank you for sharing your thoughts David

it is appreciated.
If keris needs a new home I shall recall your interest.
It is an arresting piece to the eye I think.

Sincere thanks,

Daniel

David · 25th January 2009, 09:26 PM

I am surprised that no one else has responded to this thread. I am actually a bit interested in what some members might have to say about the hilt. I have seen this little "demon baby" fella with the little willy before and have been curious about who he might represent. Any ideas?

Sajen · 25th January 2009, 11:28 PM

Kerner descriped it as Rare Kumara, guard good for the children.
Regards,
Detlef

Marcokeris · 25th January 2009, 11:58 PM

from Majapahit a white stone with another not so far subject

scratch · 26th January 2009, 11:33 AM

Is it a Buta, Bute Kale relative?

Gavin Nugent · 27th January 2009, 12:05 AM

Nice one Scratch.

I do recall a conversation about this nasty looking little man and his role in the Bali "mythos" so to speak.
A young friend has arrived from Bali to stay for seven months, I am uncertain if he would know but I beleive his father would know considering the families position in Bali.
If you don't mind I'd like to save the pictures and show him when he visits shortly.

Gav

Sajen · 27th January 2009, 02:12 AM

Hello Daniel,
I only know that Rare Kumara is a brother from Ganesha.
Regards,
Detlef

scratch · 28th January 2009, 09:16 AM

Thanks Freebooter

No problems! I look forward to any information.
Hello Sajen

Thanks for sharing the Rare Kumara Reference,Sorry I do not have a book by Kerner. I have tried to find a reference photo of this character with no success.Is he shown in the photo by Marcokeris?, Thanks.
Would he also be known as Kama?
To me this hilt looks to be of a demonic aspect rather than a deity

The bared lips, fangs, oversized clawed hand, flared eyebrows and eyes.
Pg 115 of "Kris Gli Invincibli" 1st print Has a figure with similiar eyes, eyebrows and posture. Although adult in appearance.
If possible,How many types of metal would have been used in this blade? 3 or more?
Thanking you for the discussion. If photo from book needs to be removed due to copyright I hope Moderaters will do so. I am unclear.

Cheers,

Dan

Gavin Nugent · 28th January 2009, 11:42 AM

It may be a little help and I don't claim to be certain of this but I understand even the good guys have fangs and such so it can appear a little misleading to us all from other cultures...

Gav

Sajen · 29th January 2009, 12:01 AM

Hello Daniel,
I think that I will find the time at weekend to take a photo from the page of Kerner's book, there are some very similar hilts and descriped as Rare Kumara. I am not very familar with the hindu mythologie and can't answer your question if there also other writings of this name. I own a hilt from a betel crusher with the same figure and will take also a photo from.
Best regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 29th January 2009, 12:05 AM

Hi again,
forget: yes the hilt shown in Kris Gli Invincibli is the same figure like your hilt. The buckle on his head is one typical sign of Rare Kumara.
Detlef

Sajen · 1st February 2009, 05:15 PM

Hello Daniel,
here at first the hilt I own. I think it's from a betel crusher from Bali.

Sajen · 1st February 2009, 05:20 PM

And here the page from Kerner's book.
Hope it is not against the rules to show this.
Best regards,
sajen

Marcokeris · 1st February 2009, 06:44 PM

What is the meaning of the oval (egg ?

) bowl in the hand ?

In Balì i just saw other wood's gods statue with this oval in hand

lemmythesmith · 1st February 2009, 07:29 PM

Hi all, found a reference to Rare Kumara here...

http://www.hellobalimagazine.com/pag...w-puppetry.php

Apparently he was changed into a perpetual child to stop his brother from eating him.......

22nd January 2009, 12:40 AM	#1
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	Keris 1 G'day Age and origin if possible please. Any other thoughts are also welcome. I am a novice regarding keris so forbearence of my ignorance would be much appreciated. Blade Length: 17 1/2 in (measured from aring end of ganja) Kind regards, Daniel Attached Images

25th January 2009, 11:58 PM	#6
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	from Majapahit a white stone with another not so far subject Attached Images

26th January 2009, 11:33 AM	#7
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	Is it a Buta, Bute Kale relative? Attached Images

27th January 2009, 12:05 AM	#8
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Nice on scratch Nice one Scratch. I do recall a conversation about this nasty looking little man and his role in the Bali "mythos" so to speak. A young friend has arrived from Bali to stay for seven months, I am uncertain if he would know but I beleive his father would know considering the families position in Bali. If you don't mind I'd like to save the pictures and show him when he visits shortly. Gav

28th January 2009, 09:16 AM	#10
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	Thanks Freebooter No problems! I look forward to any information. Hello Sajen Thanks for sharing the Rare Kumara Reference,Sorry I do not have a book by Kerner. I have tried to find a reference photo of this character with no success.Is he shown in the photo by Marcokeris?, Thanks. Would he also be known as Kama? To me this hilt looks to be of a demonic aspect rather than a deity The bared lips, fangs, oversized clawed hand, flared eyebrows and eyes. Pg 115 of "Kris Gli Invincibli" 1st print Has a figure with similiar eyes, eyebrows and posture. Although adult in appearance. If possible,How many types of metal would have been used in this blade? 3 or more? Thanking you for the discussion. If photo from book needs to be removed due to copyright I hope Moderaters will do so. I am unclear. Cheers, Dan Attached Images

22nd January 2009, 05:23 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	Nice one Scratch. Probably Bali, but i wouldn't count out Lombok as it is often hard to tell the difference since Bali ruled over Lombok for many years. For me it's always dangerous to date a blade , especially out of hand, but i think it is probably safe to place this one at least in the 19th century. The uwer looks new, but the rest of the dress seems to have some age. Beautiful wood on the sarong and a nice silver hilt. I'll send you my address and you can pop it in the mail anytime.

24th January 2009, 12:39 PM	#3
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	Thank you for sharing your thoughts David it is appreciated. If keris needs a new home I shall recall your interest. It is an arresting piece to the eye I think. Sincere thanks, Daniel

25th January 2009, 09:26 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	I am surprised that no one else has responded to this thread. I am actually a bit interested in what some members might have to say about the hilt. I have seen this little "demon baby" fella with the little willy before and have been curious about who he might represent. Any ideas?

25th January 2009, 11:28 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,791	Kerner descriped it as Rare Kumara, guard good for the children. Regards, Detlef

27th January 2009, 02:12 AM	#9
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,791	Hello Daniel, I only know that Rare Kumara is a brother from Ganesha. Regards, Detlef

28th January 2009, 11:42 AM	#11
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Maybe a little help It may be a little help and I don't claim to be certain of this but I understand even the good guys have fangs and such so it can appear a little misleading to us all from other cultures... Gav

29th January 2009, 12:01 AM	#12
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,791	Hello Daniel, I think that I will find the time at weekend to take a photo from the page of Kerner's book, there are some very similar hilts and descriped as Rare Kumara. I am not very familar with the hindu mythologie and can't answer your question if there also other writings of this name. I own a hilt from a betel crusher with the same figure and will take also a photo from. Best regards, Detlef

29th January 2009, 12:05 AM	#13
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,791	Hi again, forget: yes the hilt shown in Kris Gli Invincibli is the same figure like your hilt. The buckle on his head is one typical sign of Rare Kumara. Detlef

1st February 2009, 05:15 PM	#14
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,791	Hello Daniel, here at first the hilt I own. I think it's from a betel crusher from Bali. Attached Images

1st February 2009, 05:20 PM	#15
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,791	And here the page from Kerner's book. Hope it is not against the rules to show this. Best regards, sajen Attached Images

1st February 2009, 06:44 PM	#16
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	What is the meaning of the oval (egg ?) bowl in the hand ? In Balì i just saw other wood's gods statue with this oval in hand

1st February 2009, 07:29 PM	#17
lemmythesmith Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 93	Hi all, found a reference to Rare Kumara here... http://www.hellobalimagazine.com/pag...w-puppetry.php Apparently he was changed into a perpetual child to stop his brother from eating him.......