Shabria Dagger

[Aurangzeb]

Greetings To All !

Depicted are several photographs of a recent acquisition, what was described as an approximately 100 year old Saudi Arabian shabria. I purchased it from a gentleman in Bat Dam Gush Dan, Israel.
After much research I suspect it may be either Jordanian or Palestinian, possibly from the 1930's or 40's. It appears to be definitly not a 'tourist piece'. The belt loop was my repair work. The blade is of very good quality, strong steel. The back of the sheath, the throat and back of the handle were constructed of what appears to be a discarded 'tin can'. The blade is held very firmly in place by horn. The front appears to be highly polished tin since it possesses magnetic attributes. The background is an original Saudi Arabian flag hand carried back from the first Gulf War flanked by 10 Halala and 4 Ghirsh coins. As always all comments and ideas are most welcomed and appreciated ! Thanks to all of you who have provided extremely detailed and interesting information regarding some of my previous posts !

Best regards,
Mark....

[TVV]

I personally cannot help you much, but here is a link on this topic in the old forums: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001713.html
Unfortunately the pictures are gone, but the text is still there.
Regards,
Teodor

[Aurangzeb]

Hi Teodor!

Thanks,that helped a little.Of course any and all help is welcome! I have collected shabria's for a short while,( they wewre one of the first Islamic weapons I have ever had.)I'm now up to three.Thanks again for the help.

Bye

[Tim Simmons]

They come out with it The best one I heard ,when a chap trying to sell a badly cast Indian tourist market brass canon about 40 cm long,"it was the Maharajas signaling canon" this was at a militaria fare in the UK.Tim

[Conogre]

I'm still battling with the search from the old forum but Artzi posted a photo with about a dozen or so, showing the evolution form the older knives with a thinner blade to the newer ones that are much thicker and a pretty good commentary on them as well.
I also currently have three, one of each of the styles as they evolved and they are sweet little knives.
Mike

[TVV]

Conogre, I believe you are referring to the topic, to which I posted a link. In it, Artzi had put a picture of 10 shabrias, but after some changes to his website, the picture currently appears to be gone. This is too bad, as a few of them were really nice examples.

[Aurangzeb]

Hi Tim!

That is the Funniest story I have ever heard ! I have heard some pretty bad stories some sellers make up abouta item,but this by far takes the cake ...Considering brass is a terrible gun making material(To soft of a metal.).

Bye

[Aurangzeb]

Hi All!

Thanks for the help so far.The thing I am really concerned withis that:

A.) Is my estimation of it's age correct or not.(1930's or 1940's)
B.) Is my guess at it's provence of origen correct or not.(Palestine)

Thanks again for the help so far!

[ariel]

I don't know about your A question.
As to the B one, you are correct: a very, very typical Palestinian jambiya (shabariyya). They continue making them for the tourist market to this day.
This brings us back to A: I do not think anybody can establish it's accurate age with certainty. It would depend mostly on it's condition: older ones (say, before 195O) and will show some wear, the newer ones (bazaar pieces) will be quite pristine. Please remember: these are pretty rough and quite primitive weapons, with a lot of grinding marks, bad soldering, bends, kinks, uneven surfaces, holes etc. These can be confused with signs of aging, so be careful.
All in all, a very nice piece. If you start collecting at 13, you may get a real museum by 30.... I wish I could have started as early.....
All the best!

[Aurangzeb]

Thanks you very much Ariel, I very much appreciate all of the information you have provided to me regarding my Shabriyaa dagger ! Upon further, more intensive inspection of this dagger, I have found that in fact the front of the dagger and sheath are formed of silver, not tin as originally thought. My father checked it with too strong of a magnet that was actually being attracted to the tin back and thus givng the illusion that the front was also tin. I used a much weaker magnet and found no magnetic attraction to the frontal area of the dagger handle of sheath face ! The blade does show slight wear and tear from use, the sheath and handle are slightly dented. The back of the handle shows much discoloration of the tin surface from use. The blade exhibits longer and narrower qualities which seem to indicate that it is 'older', not of recent crafting. The throat of the sheath shows 'English' alphabet characters which leads me to believe it may be from the time Palestine was occupied by British Forces under British mandate. It shows much better qualities than most tourist pieces I have encountered. Can you please tell me if these were worn on the front of the belt like a Jambiya ? Perhaps this information will better qualify it's possible origination, your thoughts, as well a those of other forum members would be most welcomed and appreciated !

Thank you very much !

Mark.... a.k.a. Aurangzeb....

[tom hyle]

Actually, a great many old cannon and even handguns (particularly bluderbusses) were made of brass/bronze/coppery stuff, and in fact the term "gun metal", so commonly referring to blued steel in modern N America, originally (and thus arguably properly) refers to a certain copper alloy commonly so used in Europe. Cortes even got Maya copper casters to make him cannon. Believe it or not, a lot of early cannon (bombards, I think they were called) were even wooden (with metal bands). I like these shabrias, and though I didn't think it appropriate to argue concerning mine after I'd asked opinions on it, I will tell you that I consider this an excellent example of the misuse of the term "tourist" dagger. These are modern shabrias, in the current (post wwII?) style; plain and simple. Mine is nicely made with a sharp forged diamond section blade, and is no rougher in its construction or finish than expected on "tribal" level pieces; I'd venture to say the same of yours. I haven't handled mine in a while, but I think the blade's surface was filed to finish. Typically they bear a nice native cutler's mark, which it seems is typically a name and date(?) Light and strong, they are designed and constructed in such a way as to be useful for violence and for work, and the metal clad construction seems to me to have come from more Southern Arab influence, the earlier ones having horn "scale" handles with somewhat of a khinzalish look, as I recall.

[Aurangzeb]

Hi Tom!

Thanks for your help.My dagger to is filed finish now that I know what those lins on it are,when I first got it I thought it was the maker went scratch happy on the lower part of the blade! So my piece is not a tourist pice in the way I think of it?(made for the visitors like some koummya's in Morroco.)So my dagger is recent(1946 to present),but is not made for visiters.But instead is made by a arab for his own use.Do you think it is pre formation of Isreal or post?

Thanks again for the help!

[tom hyle]

Probably post- Certainly no real comparison is to be made to the decorator khoumiyas with the flat "tin" blades snipped out of sheet metal. This sort of dagger is sold initially by a cutler, and though numbers of them certainly are bought by foreigners either from the cutlers or on the secondary market, I am unable to comprehend the viewing of this process in a different light than with a German or Itallian knife; the whole concept of the "tourist knife" is overplayed, and perhaps rather ethnocentric, IMHO, with modern using and decorator pieces for native consumption often improperly painted with the brush. I usually consider "decorator" or similar terms more accurate for the useless wallhanging type items, but I certainly consider these shabrias as using daggers. Certainly in modern times they see less use than their ancestors, much as with the stacked-handle Spanish colonial/Mediterranean dirks we recently discussed, but this does not imply an entirely vestigial weapon/tool. Many rural N Americans carry "hunting knives" as they often term them; bowie knives usually; I'm not sure why people think the knife is a "dead" or obsolete artifact; it's something to do with industrial city culture that predisposes toward this ideation, which isn't even valid or fully accepted within that culture.

[Aurangzeb]

Hi Tom!

Thanks for all the help with my dagger! I have one of those useless decorator koummyas it is as sharp as a butter knife(if not duller). Your certinaly right about the "hunting knife" out here in rural PA just about everybody has at least one dagger/knife for hunting,work,etc. My work knife is a Iraqi AK-47 bayonet! But how do you think the english writing on the throt of my dagger came about in a country of people who speak arabic and hebrew?My idea is it was a old can just made into a dagger in modern times.So is a Islamic not Hebrew weapon.I am suprised th st use silver not tin or other metal and real horn to hold the blade in place not plastic like my other two.

Thanks again for the help with my dagger!!