Breastplate

[Lansquenet59]

Hello everyone, here is a breastplate that I have had in my collection for a long time. Comments and information are welcome. For me, it dates from the end of the 17th century, see early 18th. And used for the seat. It weighs 10 kg, with a metal lining inside. A test shot on it, and a second one (enemy perhaps).
Also look at the collar which is riveted. It is rather atypical.

[ulfberth]

a very nice example ! Im not sure on the date it could be 17 century also.
Besides the nice engravings which are primitive but they give it a_lot of character, the reinforcement is purely functional and most probably placed before a campaign or so. There are breastplates of the same era with removable reinforcement and permanent place on during working life as there are heavy ones made in one piece from the beginning.
A pure item, i like it a lot !

[fernando]

A rather interesting peascod example, Thomas. No wonder it is that heavy, with the metal reinforcement.
May i ask an ignorant question about the collar piece, once Dirk didn't mention anything about it. Why does it have those crude iron rivets ? Could it have been removed for some reason and later riveted back in place ? Can't we see a little disalignment of the decoration in the center ?

[Lansquenet59]

My theory is that the collar may have been adapted later, perhaps for better protection, as well as the inner plate too.
I think, originally a simple breastplate transformed for the seat ....

[fernando]

I confess my ignorance. What do you mean by 'seat'; not siege, of course .

[David R]

There are breastplates in the Leeds Royal Armouries Museum that are doubled, with a layer between that is made up almost random scrap. Plates from faulds and tassets held between two breastplates, or a breastplate and a metal lining. They are dated to the later 17th century.

[Lansquenet59]

"Seat" (siège) is the French term, what is the English term? When is there an attack on a fortification?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Lansquenet59

"Seat" (siège) is the French term, what is the English term? When is there an attack on a fortification?

I figured that was what you meant; just wasn't sure. Yes, siege (surround) in English, cerco in Portuguese.

[Lansquenet59]

Okay, thank you, I'll know for the next time.

[ulfberth]

Originally Posted by fernando

A rather interesting peascod example, Thomas. No wonder it is that heavy, with the metal reinforcement.
May i ask an ignorant question about the collar piece, once Dirk didn't mention anything about it. Why does it have those crude iron rivets ? Could it have been removed for some reason and later riveted back in place ? Can't we see a little disalignment of the decoration in the center ?

The place were the iron rivets are now is were the brass rivets like the one on the sides used to be, they closed the old holes with iron placing the reinforcement. Its clear this breastplate was transformed as Lansquenet put it for a siege or a campaign, closing it more on the neck in the process providing more protection.

[fernando]

Duly noted, Dirk .

[ulfberth]

this armor is obviously from a high ranked officer and more decorated , but if you look closely it has also brass decoration on the sides , decorated with similar lines across the torso and even a resembling shape. It is in Musee de L'armee in Paris and is described as " armor for the siege circa 1670" if you look closely you can see that this helmet has also reinforcement plates on top. I wonder if the two bolts on the breastplate are used to attach extra reinforcement plates to, this method was used at the time on both helmets and breastplates. This closed helmet for the field circa 1620 with bolt on ( removable) reinforcement plates is in the Metmuseum weight 6,293 kilo.

[Lansquenet59]

Thank you for sharing. I did not know this plate reinforcement system. It's very interesting.

[fernando]

It must have been hell to keep head (and body) inside these apparatuses; in a warm/hot climate, they become as hot as stoves. In reading chronicles of the (Portuguese) discoveries period in India, those who wore armour couldn't stand the heat and often had to take them off ... and apparently not the reinforced version.

[ulfberth]

Originally Posted by fernando

It must have been hell to keep head (and body) inside these apparatuses; in a warm/hot climate, they become as hot as stoves. In reading chronicles of the (Portuguese) discoveries period in India, those who wore armour couldn't stand the heat and often had to take them off ... and apparently not the reinforced version.

take in account the padded liner in helmets and gambason worn under the armor

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by fernando

It must have been hell to keep head (and body) inside these apparatuses; in a warm/hot climate, they become as hot as stoves. In reading chronicles of the (Portuguese) discoveries period in India, those who wore armour couldn't stand the heat and often had to take them off ... and apparently not the reinforced version.

Hence the popularity of wearing mail armour in the Middle East and other hot places. Air could circulate and heat evaporate.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Victrix

Hence the popularity of wearing mail armour in the Middle East and other hot places. Air could circulate and heat evaporate.

Yes; no sauna .

[ulfberth]

another example of a reinforcement breastplate, to be bolted on and worn on top of the regular breastplate and make it bulletproof, weight 6,662 kg, era circa 1630 origin Italian , Metropolitan Museum.