New Shashka: need advice

[ariel]

Here is my new Shashka. Despite being advertised by some people here as a "Shashka maven", I am far from it and need help.
First, it is completely original, down to the wood inserts of the scabbard(very worn, though). The leather is two -color: black at the top, burgundy at the bottom (Daghestani?). The blade is locally-made and has a half-gurda mark with several indentations around (Daghestani?????). It is quite heavy, as opposed to the light Circassian ones. The handle is one piece horn, with meduim size split (not very narrow as Circassian, but not as wide as Georgian). The decorations are , likely, silver-coated brass (cheap, cheap, cheap....). But the ornaments look Circassian to me, with niello-ed central rosettes and very sparse embellishments around, although there are no typical Circassian "horns". There is no date, no name, no inscription.
I tend to think it is Daghestani, early-to-mid 19th century (Shamil???)
Need opinions.

[Titus Pullo]

All I can say is: very nice! I know if it's authentic or not. The blade looks like it hadn't seen any action, though! Could be a real sword sold for tourists.

[Rivkin]

I don't know, I'm getting some kind of feeling it might be chechen. Nothing for certain, obviously, more I have to admit I never seen something like this guy. Have to take another look in books.

[Yannis]

I dont understand this 2 color leather. Is it possible, the black leather to be later? Also, something is missing in the center of scabbard or it is the shrinkage from the age?

[ariel]

Originally Posted by Yannis

I dont understand this 2 color leather. Is it possible, the black leather to be later? Also, something is missing in the center of scabbard or it is the shrinkage from the age?

The bi-color scabbards were quite popular, especially in Chechnya. And I have found an identical ornamentation motives in the Astvatsaturyan's and Askhabov's books: both unequvocally attributed to Chechnya.
The gap in the middle is just age shrinkage of the leather.

[Yannis]

Thank you Ariel. I didnt know this 2 color mode. The most antique shaskas you see these days they have replaced leather. I like very much the detail of the pommel with this niello work.

[Tim Simmons]

Looks like a nice complete weapon. I really do not know but it looks as if it is from the later part of the 19th century to me. A complete and basic serviceable example the sort one can afford. Just what I like.

[ham]

This is an excellent example of a Chechen shashka of the third quarter of the 19th century, and an untouched one at that. Congratulations, Ariel.
As Rivkin observes, the combination of red and black were popular there, not only as regards scabbard covering but garments and other male accoutrements as well. Astvatsaturian includes Chechnia in the Circassian culturalsphere-- and here is proof. The engraved motifs and background matting, in addition to the bicolored leather, point to Circassian influence.
Ariel, if you polish those mounts you will find they are silver, not brass. Not sterling grade, but silver nonetheless.

Sincerely,

Ham

[Rivkin]

Originally Posted by ham

This is an excellent example of a Chechen shashka of the third quarter of the 19th century, and an untouched one at that. Congratulations, Ariel.
As Rivkin observes, the combination of red and black were popular there, not only as regards scabbard covering but garments and other male accoutrements as well. Astvatsaturian includes Chechnia in the Circassian culturalsphere-- and here is proof. The engraved motifs and background matting, in addition to the bicolored leather, point to Circassian influence.
Ariel, if you polish those mounts you will find they are silver, not brass. Not sterling grade, but silver nonetheless.

Sincerely,

Ham

Can't take the credit for red and black, but I will take the credit for pointing out the possibility of chechen origin.

Returning to the question chechen vs. circassian etc. (all things below are just my personal ignorant opinions):

1. I still think that kindjal in question looks different than chechen ones I've seen.
2. When we are talking about rugs, pottery, legends or weapons of Caucasus there are always 3 theories:
a. The style in question was introduced by an outside invader. For example, "Rumi" floral ornament is quite typical for islamic art in general; I can't say that Spanish Umayad niello looks more different from Circassian work than let's say late XIX cenutry Dagestani work.
In light of this, it will be hard to point Circassians are being the ones who intoduced such motiffs into Caucasus. Most likely some more "islamic" influence is responsible for it.
b. It was invented by a single Caucasian nation. I encountered articles claiming that it was Dagestan were the floral motiff was originally invented (based on examination of ancient burial grounds). I also read articles claiming that narts were the origin of all knightly epis, from japanese to celtic ones (most notably the stories about the graal and king Arthur).
c. The third opinion is that all of the above is true to some extent - more powerful nations (circassians) were influencing art and folklore of their neighbors and at the same time were influenced by outsiders.

Concerning chechens being in circassian sphere of influence, I would find a lot of problems with this claim. First of all, as all nations in Caucasus chechens are not a single nation, but a rather loose union of 40 or so tribes. Some of them, on the northern plains, are of circassian descent, and heavily related to circassian culture. Some of them (Mjalhista, Maista) came to recognize the existance of chechen (nohchi) union only in early XX century and heavily related to northern georgian culture (Khevsurs and Tsova Tushi). Same weapons, same armor, same towers and extremely similar traditions (in a pre-islamic epoch). I don't think one can find them to be more "circassian" than say kacheti or racha. Yes, some of their work is somewhat reminscent to circassian style, but georgians also did some quite similar work.

Second, why circassian and not say osethian or sarmatian ? There are very well documented theories claiming that osethians or sarmatians are the ones who originated most of northern caucasian culture.