Sword remains found at Babberich Mannor - NOT!

werecow · 16th June 2022, 12:57 PM

The remains of a sword were found at Babberich Manor in Zevenaar, Gelderland, The Netherlands. The sword was found underwater "somewhere around the manor". The house likely stems from the 14th century, but was rebuilt in the 18th.

The manor is also known as "Halsaf" ("neck off") due to a legend. It goes something like this:

The servant girl was at home alone at night in the castle. She discovered a group of seven robbers were trying to break in through the cellar door. As soon as the robbers peeked their heads in one by one through the small door, the servant girl decapitated them with a sword. She killed all but one of them this way.
Later, she was invited by a handsome young man for a ride in his carriage across the meadows of Babberich. When his wig blew off, the girl recognized him as the last robber, and threw him from the carriage. He fell in front of the wheels of the carriage and was killed instantly. According to the legend, she still watches over the castle and its inhabitants.

Robbers 2-6 don't sound too bright, is all I'll say.

Obviously, the connection to the legend (and the legend itself) is to be taken with an enormous grain of salt, but also dominates every headline. }|:oP

Does it look genuine to you? The crossguard looks a bit unusual to me with that bolster attached. Maybe a hunting sword/hanger?

David R · 16th June 2022, 02:20 PM

Have a search using "hauswehr" as the search prompt.

werecow · 16th June 2022, 03:41 PM

Something like this, you mean?:

That could work. Maybe the circular bit in the center of the crossguard is the rivet for the nagel?

Also, as an aside, hauswehr is a very appropriate name for the sword in the folk tale (although the mention of the wig sounds very >=17th century so that wouldn't really work too well with a 15th century sword, of course).

CSinTX · 17th June 2022, 02:07 AM

Guessing the guard is brass? Looks to be in great condition.

werecow · 18th June 2022, 06:21 PM

Hah, apparently he bought it on marktplaats (Dutch ebay, basically)!
He tried to pass it off as the sword from the folk tale. Whether or not it is a genuine antique is unclear (to me, anyway). According to the listing on MP it was dug up in Germany.

I can't edit the title of the thread anymore, but perhaps it should be changed to reflect this.

fernando · 18th June 2022, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by werecow

... I can't edit the title of the thread anymore, but perhaps it should be changed to reflect this.

And what would that be ?

werecow · 18th June 2022, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

And what would that be ?

Not sure really. But the remains weren't actually found at/near the manor, so the title of the thread is incorrect.

corrado26 · 20th June 2022, 11:57 AM

The style of the blade, especially that of the tip of the blade and the grip made of cast brass makes me think that this is nothing else than a European fascine knife of the 19th century. For me this is not as old as it is said to be!

Will M · 20th June 2022, 02:51 PM

Never pay for provenance that cannot be proven and this is a great example.

16th June 2022, 12:57 PM	#1
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 491	Sword remains found at Babberich Mannor - NOT! The remains of a sword were found at Babberich Manor in Zevenaar, Gelderland, The Netherlands. The sword was found underwater "somewhere around the manor". The house likely stems from the 14th century, but was rebuilt in the 18th. The manor is also known as "Halsaf" ("neck off") due to a legend. It goes something like this: The servant girl was at home alone at night in the castle. She discovered a group of seven robbers were trying to break in through the cellar door. As soon as the robbers peeked their heads in one by one through the small door, the servant girl decapitated them with a sword. She killed all but one of them this way. Later, she was invited by a handsome young man for a ride in his carriage across the meadows of Babberich. When his wig blew off, the girl recognized him as the last robber, and threw him from the carriage. He fell in front of the wheels of the carriage and was killed instantly. According to the legend, she still watches over the castle and its inhabitants. Robbers 2-6 don't sound too bright, is all I'll say. Obviously, the connection to the legend (and the legend itself) is to be taken with an enormous grain of salt, but also dominates every headline. }\|:oP Does it look genuine to you? The crossguard looks a bit unusual to me with that bolster attached. Maybe a hunting sword/hanger? Attached Images Last edited by werecow; 16th June 2022 at 04:26 PM.

16th June 2022, 03:41 PM	#3
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 491	Something like this, you mean?: That could work. Maybe the circular bit in the center of the crossguard is the rivet for the nagel? Also, as an aside, hauswehr is a very appropriate name for the sword in the folk tale (although the mention of the wig sounds very >=17th century so that wouldn't really work too well with a 15th century sword, of course). Last edited by werecow; 16th June 2022 at 04:23 PM.

16th June 2022, 02:20 PM	#2
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	Have a search using "hauswehr" as the search prompt.

17th June 2022, 02:07 AM	#4
CSinTX Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 233	Guessing the guard is brass? Looks to be in great condition.

18th June 2022, 06:21 PM	#5
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 491	Hah, apparently he bought it on marktplaats (Dutch ebay, basically)! He tried to pass it off as the sword from the folk tale. Whether or not it is a genuine antique is unclear (to me, anyway). According to the listing on MP it was dug up in Germany. I can't edit the title of the thread anymore, but perhaps it should be changed to reflect this.

20th June 2022, 11:57 AM	#8
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	The style of the blade, especially that of the tip of the blade and the grip made of cast brass makes me think that this is nothing else than a European fascine knife of the 19th century. For me this is not as old as it is said to be!

20th June 2022, 02:51 PM	#9
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	Never pay for provenance that cannot be proven and this is a great example.