Bird dha

Mark · 3rd April 2007, 07:04 PM

What do people make of the bird-shaped dha, such as the one shown in Stone's glossary, and this one from Artzi's site (there is another for sale on another site, but policy prevents me from posting a link)?

Tim Simmons · 3rd April 2007, 08:10 PM

I wish I knew more, I do not think they are old 1930s at the most. The construction is consistent with many dha short swords of that time. I am sure these are not functioning knives. I should imagine they were made and bought for some reason.

CharlesS · 3rd April 2007, 10:29 PM

Though I acknowledge they are a legitimate dha form, and apparently have been around for some time (witness Stone's notation on them), asthetically, I am just not a fan of this type. Though it surely may not be, if gives off the impression of a "tourist piece" more then any other legit weapon I know of.

Hope I didn't offend anyone...just my opinion.

~Alaung_Hpaya~ · 4th April 2007, 11:32 AM

I have acquired one of these recently ( the one on the other site that Mark is referring to ) because it is an oddity . I concur that this is a dha and of Burmese provenance but probably not ethnic Bama ( not central belt anyway ) .

I will post some pictures once I have taken them . The length is about 27" with the blade being of fairly heavy contruction with an almost full length fuller and a shorter one nearer the spine . The hilt is black horn and the fittings around the hardwood ( possibly teak ) scabbard are brass. A faded thick orange/red cord cord wraps the proximal scabbard in an identical style to that done on other Burmese pieces. Although I have not personally seen this kind of dha before I have seen similar carved horn in the shape of a bird's head but inverted to form the body of a hand catapult ( the bane of authority and the choice of children : the other popular weapon in Burma

)

Currently I'm in the process of trying to get information from other Burmese sources about the age and manufacture of these . G C Stones pictures are 1930s so we can be sure that they are at least that old.

So far I have gathered that they may be ceremonial and used by an indigenous minority as a status symbol by a tribe who worship or hold particular significance to a pair of mythical birds . The only minority I'm aware of who believe that they descended from mythical Kinnari are the Padaung ( giraffe necked women ). Mainly the response is ," I've never seen one of these before" .

Here are a few pictures from Mark's site ( I'm sure he won't mind ) of dha of similar shape :

Tim Simmons · 4th April 2007, 12:22 PM

Just thought I would add this dha knife well more of a dagger really. The blade is only 23cm long. I have seen the same decortation on swords. looking at the blade I think there is some age here.

Tim Simmons · 4th April 2007, 07:36 PM

Compere this to the first knife shown from Mark's site with the carved ivory handle. The blade is a twin but the rest is quite different. Interesting?

~Alaung_Hpaya~ · 5th April 2007, 12:13 AM

where is your blade from?

Mark · 5th April 2007, 02:34 PM

It looks like a Thai meed hnep, though the piercing on the bands of the scabbard is reminiscent of those on some Bama dha.

RhysMichael · 6th April 2007, 01:07 AM

maybe once more I am seeing things that are not there but does anyone else see a resemblance between the hilt of the bird dha and this indonesian sword hilt. I am not saying they are the same only that they have similarities

Andrew · 8th April 2007, 08:37 PM

I see it, as well, JT.

Mark, in addition to some Burmese weapons with the feature, I've also had some late 20th century Thai daab with similar pierced metal bands around the scabbard.

3rd April 2007, 07:04 PM	#1
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Bird dha What do people make of the bird-shaped dha, such as the one shown in Stone's glossary, and this one from Artzi's site (there is another for sale on another site, but policy prevents me from posting a link)?

4th April 2007, 11:32 AM	#4
~Alaung_Hpaya~ Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 65	I have acquired one of these recently ( the one on the other site that Mark is referring to ) because it is an oddity . I concur that this is a dha and of Burmese provenance but probably not ethnic Bama ( not central belt anyway ) . I will post some pictures once I have taken them . The length is about 27" with the blade being of fairly heavy contruction with an almost full length fuller and a shorter one nearer the spine . The hilt is black horn and the fittings around the hardwood ( possibly teak ) scabbard are brass. A faded thick orange/red cord cord wraps the proximal scabbard in an identical style to that done on other Burmese pieces. Although I have not personally seen this kind of dha before I have seen similar carved horn in the shape of a bird's head but inverted to form the body of a hand catapult ( the bane of authority and the choice of children : the other popular weapon in Burma ) Currently I'm in the process of trying to get information from other Burmese sources about the age and manufacture of these . G C Stones pictures are 1930s so we can be sure that they are at least that old. So far I have gathered that they may be ceremonial and used by an indigenous minority as a status symbol by a tribe who worship or hold particular significance to a pair of mythical birds . The only minority I'm aware of who believe that they descended from mythical Kinnari are the Padaung ( giraffe necked women ). Mainly the response is ," I've never seen one of these before" . Here are a few pictures from Mark's site ( I'm sure he won't mind ) of dha of similar shape : Attached Images

3rd April 2007, 08:10 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,755	I wish I knew more, I do not think they are old 1930s at the most. The construction is consistent with many dha short swords of that time. I am sure these are not functioning knives. I should imagine they were made and bought for some reason.

3rd April 2007, 10:29 PM	#3
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,855	Though I acknowledge they are a legitimate dha form, and apparently have been around for some time (witness Stone's notation on them), asthetically, I am just not a fan of this type. Though it surely may not be, if gives off the impression of a "tourist piece" more then any other legit weapon I know of. Hope I didn't offend anyone...just my opinion.

4th April 2007, 12:22 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,755	Just thought I would add this dha knife well more of a dagger really. The blade is only 23cm long. I have seen the same decortation on swords. looking at the blade I think there is some age here.

4th April 2007, 07:36 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,755	Compere this to the first knife shown from Mark's site with the carved ivory handle. The blade is a twin but the rest is quite different. Interesting?

5th April 2007, 12:13 AM	#7
~Alaung_Hpaya~ Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 65	where is your blade from?

5th April 2007, 02:34 PM	#8
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	It looks like a Thai meed hnep, though the piercing on the bands of the scabbard is reminiscent of those on some Bama dha.

6th April 2007, 01:07 AM	#9
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	maybe once more I am seeing things that are not there but does anyone else see a resemblance between the hilt of the bird dha and this indonesian sword hilt. I am not saying they are the same only that they have similarities

8th April 2007, 08:37 PM	#10
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I see it, as well, JT. Mark, in addition to some Burmese weapons with the feature, I've also had some late 20th century Thai daab with similar pierced metal bands around the scabbard.