Unusual Masai/Maasai? Spear

Norman McCormick · 2nd February 2014, 08:25 PM

Hi,
Looking for some help from all the African experts. Despite this spear's more obvious lineage there are some aspects that I have not seen before, the unusual butt spike, the 'lion' hide, the grips and the decoration. It is 91 inches (231 cm) long in total the head being 32 inches (81 cm), all the metal parts appear to have been painted black at some time possibly by a collector in the past? It has obviously been around for some time but I've no idea as to how long. I did get another spear with this one which is of a completely different form but may or may not be associated which I will post next. Many thanks for all and any replies.
Regards,
Norman.

VANDOO · 2nd February 2014, 10:25 PM

THE IRON SPEAR POINT APPEARS TO BE A LOCALLY FORGED OLDER MASAI ELDERS LION SPEAR. ALL THE REST DOSENT FIT WITH THE MASAI AT ALL HOW IT ALL CAME TOGETHER WOULD NO DOUBT BE A VERY INTERESTING STORY. PERHAPS OTHER MEMBERS CAN IDENTIFY THE BUTT SPIKE AND WHAT TRIBE MIGHT FIT OUT THE SPEAR SHAFT LIKE IT IS. A INTERESTING PERHAPS ONE OF A KIND ITEM.

Norman McCormick · 2nd February 2014, 10:45 PM

Hi Vandoo,
I couldn't find anything remotely similar, the spearhead was the only part that was familiar, hopefully someone might have an inkling to its origin.
Thanks for your interest.
My Regards,
Norman.

Norman McCormick · 2nd February 2014, 10:52 PM

Hi,
This section reminds me of Manding/Mandingo work and decoration.
Regards,
Norman.

VANDOO · 3rd February 2014, 01:32 AM

THE LEATHER WORK DOES REMIND ME OF MANDINGO WORK AND THE BUTT SPIKE PERHAPS ETHIOPIA, PERSIA, INDIA

I HAVE A SPEAR WITH A SIMULAR COVERED SHAFT WITH WHAT MAY BE LION HIDE AND SEPARATE SECTIONS OF LEATHER WORK LIKE YOURS. UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE SPEAR IS FROM. I INCLUDE A PICTURE IT IS THE LARGER ONE WITH THE TWO PRONGS ON THE HEAD. PERHAPS MY SPEAR CAN GET IDENTIFIED AND HELP IDENTIFY YOURS AS WELL.

colin henshaw · 3rd February 2014, 06:26 PM

There are a few of these around - usually the metal parts quite crudely made, sometimes with bits of leopard fur round the shaft, plus coloured leatherwork. I think they were mainly made for sale to Europeans, perhaps early-mid 20th century ? I've heard it said they emanated from the Sierra Leone area ??

But the head on this example looks as if it comes from a recent Masai spear from East Africa, and does not belong.

Regards.

Norman McCormick · 3rd February 2014, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

There are a few of these around - usually the metal parts quite crudely made, sometimes with bits of leopard fur round the shaft, plus coloured leatherwork. I think they were mainly made for sale to Europeans, perhaps early-mid 20th century ? I've heard it said they emanated from the Sierra Leone area ??

But the head on this example looks as if it comes from a recent Masai spear from East Africa, and does not belong.

Regards.

Hi Colin,
No surprises, the 'Somali' spear was the one I went for and this was with it. Many thanks for the info.
My Regards,
Norman.

Hi Vandoo,
Looks like we may have our answer

.
My Regards.
Norman.

VANDOO · 3rd February 2014, 08:19 PM

YES IT LOOKS LIKE THE ANSWER IS SIERRA LEONE. MY SPEAR SHAFT IS LIKE YOURS AND THE STEEL POINT IS CRUDELY MADE ON MINE IT WOULD MAKE A BETTER WALL HANGER OR DANCE SPEAR THAN ONE FOR WAR OR HUNTING. I COULD FIND NO PICTURES OF SUCH A SPEAR LOOKING THRU PHOTOS BUT DID FIND THAT MASAI WERE PRESENT IN SIERRA LEONE THOUGH NOT IN LARGE NUMBERS. THE PRIMARY TRIBES BEING THE TEMNE AND MENDE I KNOW LITTLE OF THESE TRIBES SO PERHAPS THE LEATHER WORK AND USE OF HIDES TO COVER SPEAR SHAFTS IS PREVELENT AMONG THESE TRIBES.?
THE POINT ON YOUR SPEAR MAY NOT BE SO BAD HAS IT BEEN SHARPENED IF SO IT MAY HAVE SEEN USE. IF SO IT MAY BE THE GUINUINE NATIVE MADE OLD IRON MASSAI POINT OLD LOCAL MADE ONES WERE OFTEN IRON AND WILL BEND AND STRAIGHTEN. THE BUTT SPIKE IS GOOD QUALITY AND YOU MAY GET AN I.D. ON IT. IT APPEARS TO BE A COMPOSITE WITH VARYING QUALITY TO ITS PARTS.
THIS OLD 1909 POSTCARD IS ALL I HAVE FOUND TO PLACE THE MASAI IN SIERRA LEONE HOW ACCURATE IT IS I HAVE NO IDEA AS I THOUGHT THEY WERE MAINLY IN KENYA AND TANZINEA.

Norman McCormick · 3rd February 2014, 09:16 PM

Hi Vandoo,
The first 4/5 inches of the blade have been sharpened and are still sharp, plenty for very effective use with this type of blade profile. Sierra Leone and Kenya approx 3500 miles apart, a long way for Maasai overland migration? The butt spike has been cleaned, varnished and re-attached at some point, whether this is an indication that it is not original to the piece or just running repairs is difficult to ascertain. The head is attached to the shaft with some type of black pitch. Thanks for the additional info.
My Regards,
Norman.

Norman McCormick · 4th February 2014, 11:00 PM

Hi Vandoo,
This spearhead is on a commercial website, P.M. if you want the web address, and is described as ceremonial Somali/Danakil, looks a lot like your spearhead with the shaft like the one on this thread. Might be coincidental that the other spear I got with this one has been identified as Somali. Might raise a few ???
My Regards,
Norman.

Richard G · 6th February 2014, 12:19 PM

The postcard is confusing, Naivasha is in Kenya.
Regards
Richard

VANDOO · 6th February 2014, 06:44 PM

YES A BOGUS POST CARD WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT , EVERYTHING THAT IS WRITTEN IS TRUE ISN'T IT.

I SHOULD HAVE CHECKED UP ON WHERE THE OTHER TOWN WAS I AM GLAD SOMEONE ELSE DID. GETTIN LAZY IN MY OLD AGE

I WOULD SAY THIS SPEAR WAS MADE UP BY SOMEONE OTHER THAN THE MASSAI. THE MASSAI HAVE CHOSEN TO MAINTAIN THEIR SOCIETY IN THE OLD AND TRADITIONAL WAYS. THEIR SPEARS AND SWORDS ARE CONSTRUCTED IN A CERTIAN WAY AND FROM WHAT I SAW IN TANZANIA AND KENYA HAVE REMAINED TRUE TO FORM. THIS SPEAR WAS LIKELY PUT TOGETHER BY SOMEONE OTHER THAN A TRADITIONAL MASSAI. THE QUESTION IS WHICH TRIBE AND WHERE THEY ARE LOCATED THAT COVER THE SPEAR SHAFT WITH SECTIONS OF HIDE INTERSPACED WITH LEATHER WORK AS WE SEE ON THESE TWO EXAMPLES? I SUSPECT THE BLADE AND BUTT SPIKE ARE OLDER THAN THE SHAFT ON THE FIRST SPEAR.
MY SPEAR IS 57.5 INCHES LONG AND IS MISSING THE BUTT SPIKE. IT COULD BE USED AS A SHORT THRUSTING AND SLASHING WEAPON BUT IS MOST LIKELY FOR CEREMONIE, PARADES, DANCE OR JUST A TOURIST ITEM.

THE SPEAR POINT ON MINE IS NOT OF GOOD QUALITY LIKE THE ONE SHOWN IN THE PREVIOUS POST AND IS LIKELY MADE OF A PIECE OF SCRAP METAL FROM A CAR OR OIL DRUM OR SOMETHING. THE SHAFT DOES SHOW WEAR AND MOST OF THE HAIR IS GONE FROM THE HIDE COVER SO IT MAY HAVE SEEN SOME LOCAL USE?.

Norman McCormick · 7th February 2014, 08:13 PM

Hi,
Met a friend today whom I hadn't seen in a while, his family owned a farm in Kenya from the early 1920's through to the late 1970's and he was born and brought up in Kenya. They actually owned two farms one of which was adjacent to the Maasai reserve. I described this spear to him and his unreserved opinion was that this is tourist stuff, older tourist, but definitely tourist. As far as I'm concerned this conundrum has been put to bed and I'll now consign this spear to the scrapheap

Regards,
Norman.

VANDOO · 8th February 2014, 01:59 AM

VANDOOS SCRAP HEAP IS AVALABLE FOR ALL SUCH CAST OFFS

Norman McCormick · 8th February 2014, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

VANDOOS SCRAP HEAP IS AVALABLE FOR ALL SUCH CAST OFFS

Too late my friend, son and heir has purloined said spear and hotfooted it.

Maybe next time although one hopes there won't be a next time

but sure as eggs are eggs there probably will be.

My Regards,
Norman.

colin henshaw · 3rd March 2014, 01:40 PM

I was watching the BBC comedy TV show "Blandings" yesterday evening, and saw Clarence (Lord Emsworth), has a spear like this one in the corner of his study, next to a Zulu shield.

See www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer

Norman McCormick · 4th March 2014, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

BBC comedy TV show "Blandings".

See www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer

2nd February 2014, 08:25 PM	#1
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Unusual Masai/Maasai? Spear Hi, Looking for some help from all the African experts. Despite this spear's more obvious lineage there are some aspects that I have not seen before, the unusual butt spike, the 'lion' hide, the grips and the decoration. It is 91 inches (231 cm) long in total the head being 32 inches (81 cm), all the metal parts appear to have been painted black at some time possibly by a collector in the past? It has obviously been around for some time but I've no idea as to how long. I did get another spear with this one which is of a completely different form but may or may not be associated which I will post next. Many thanks for all and any replies. Regards, Norman. Attached Images Last edited by Norman McCormick; 2nd February 2014 at 09:22 PM.

2nd February 2014, 10:52 PM	#4
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi, This section reminds me of Manding/Mandingo work and decoration. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

3rd February 2014, 01:32 AM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE LEATHER WORK DOES REMIND ME OF MANDINGO WORK AND THE BUTT SPIKE PERHAPS ETHIOPIA, PERSIA, INDIA I HAVE A SPEAR WITH A SIMULAR COVERED SHAFT WITH WHAT MAY BE LION HIDE AND SEPARATE SECTIONS OF LEATHER WORK LIKE YOURS. UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE SPEAR IS FROM. I INCLUDE A PICTURE IT IS THE LARGER ONE WITH THE TWO PRONGS ON THE HEAD. PERHAPS MY SPEAR CAN GET IDENTIFIED AND HELP IDENTIFY YOURS AS WELL. Attached Images

3rd February 2014, 08:19 PM	#8
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	YES IT LOOKS LIKE THE ANSWER IS SIERRA LEONE. MY SPEAR SHAFT IS LIKE YOURS AND THE STEEL POINT IS CRUDELY MADE ON MINE IT WOULD MAKE A BETTER WALL HANGER OR DANCE SPEAR THAN ONE FOR WAR OR HUNTING. I COULD FIND NO PICTURES OF SUCH A SPEAR LOOKING THRU PHOTOS BUT DID FIND THAT MASAI WERE PRESENT IN SIERRA LEONE THOUGH NOT IN LARGE NUMBERS. THE PRIMARY TRIBES BEING THE TEMNE AND MENDE I KNOW LITTLE OF THESE TRIBES SO PERHAPS THE LEATHER WORK AND USE OF HIDES TO COVER SPEAR SHAFTS IS PREVELENT AMONG THESE TRIBES.? THE POINT ON YOUR SPEAR MAY NOT BE SO BAD HAS IT BEEN SHARPENED IF SO IT MAY HAVE SEEN USE. IF SO IT MAY BE THE GUINUINE NATIVE MADE OLD IRON MASSAI POINT OLD LOCAL MADE ONES WERE OFTEN IRON AND WILL BEND AND STRAIGHTEN. THE BUTT SPIKE IS GOOD QUALITY AND YOU MAY GET AN I.D. ON IT. IT APPEARS TO BE A COMPOSITE WITH VARYING QUALITY TO ITS PARTS. THIS OLD 1909 POSTCARD IS ALL I HAVE FOUND TO PLACE THE MASAI IN SIERRA LEONE HOW ACCURATE IT IS I HAVE NO IDEA AS I THOUGHT THEY WERE MAINLY IN KENYA AND TANZINEA. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 4th February 2014 at 04:06 AM.

4th February 2014, 11:00 PM	#10
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi Vandoo, This spearhead is on a commercial website, P.M. if you want the web address, and is described as ceremonial Somali/Danakil, looks a lot like your spearhead with the shaft like the one on this thread. Might be coincidental that the other spear I got with this one has been identified as Somali. Might raise a few ??? My Regards, Norman. Attached Images

2nd February 2014, 10:25 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE IRON SPEAR POINT APPEARS TO BE A LOCALLY FORGED OLDER MASAI ELDERS LION SPEAR. ALL THE REST DOSENT FIT WITH THE MASAI AT ALL HOW IT ALL CAME TOGETHER WOULD NO DOUBT BE A VERY INTERESTING STORY. PERHAPS OTHER MEMBERS CAN IDENTIFY THE BUTT SPIKE AND WHAT TRIBE MIGHT FIT OUT THE SPEAR SHAFT LIKE IT IS. A INTERESTING PERHAPS ONE OF A KIND ITEM.

2nd February 2014, 10:45 PM	#3
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi Vandoo, I couldn't find anything remotely similar, the spearhead was the only part that was familiar, hopefully someone might have an inkling to its origin. Thanks for your interest. My Regards, Norman.

3rd February 2014, 06:26 PM	#6
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	There are a few of these around - usually the metal parts quite crudely made, sometimes with bits of leopard fur round the shaft, plus coloured leatherwork. I think they were mainly made for sale to Europeans, perhaps early-mid 20th century ? I've heard it said they emanated from the Sierra Leone area ?? But the head on this example looks as if it comes from a recent Masai spear from East Africa, and does not belong. Regards.

3rd February 2014, 09:16 PM	#9
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi Vandoo, The first 4/5 inches of the blade have been sharpened and are still sharp, plenty for very effective use with this type of blade profile. Sierra Leone and Kenya approx 3500 miles apart, a long way for Maasai overland migration? The butt spike has been cleaned, varnished and re-attached at some point, whether this is an indication that it is not original to the piece or just running repairs is difficult to ascertain. The head is attached to the shaft with some type of black pitch. Thanks for the additional info. My Regards, Norman.

6th February 2014, 12:19 PM	#11
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 406	The postcard is confusing, Naivasha is in Kenya. Regards Richard

6th February 2014, 06:44 PM	#12
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	YES A BOGUS POST CARD WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT , EVERYTHING THAT IS WRITTEN IS TRUE ISN'T IT. I SHOULD HAVE CHECKED UP ON WHERE THE OTHER TOWN WAS I AM GLAD SOMEONE ELSE DID. GETTIN LAZY IN MY OLD AGE I WOULD SAY THIS SPEAR WAS MADE UP BY SOMEONE OTHER THAN THE MASSAI. THE MASSAI HAVE CHOSEN TO MAINTAIN THEIR SOCIETY IN THE OLD AND TRADITIONAL WAYS. THEIR SPEARS AND SWORDS ARE CONSTRUCTED IN A CERTIAN WAY AND FROM WHAT I SAW IN TANZANIA AND KENYA HAVE REMAINED TRUE TO FORM. THIS SPEAR WAS LIKELY PUT TOGETHER BY SOMEONE OTHER THAN A TRADITIONAL MASSAI. THE QUESTION IS WHICH TRIBE AND WHERE THEY ARE LOCATED THAT COVER THE SPEAR SHAFT WITH SECTIONS OF HIDE INTERSPACED WITH LEATHER WORK AS WE SEE ON THESE TWO EXAMPLES? I SUSPECT THE BLADE AND BUTT SPIKE ARE OLDER THAN THE SHAFT ON THE FIRST SPEAR. MY SPEAR IS 57.5 INCHES LONG AND IS MISSING THE BUTT SPIKE. IT COULD BE USED AS A SHORT THRUSTING AND SLASHING WEAPON BUT IS MOST LIKELY FOR CEREMONIE, PARADES, DANCE OR JUST A TOURIST ITEM. THE SPEAR POINT ON MINE IS NOT OF GOOD QUALITY LIKE THE ONE SHOWN IN THE PREVIOUS POST AND IS LIKELY MADE OF A PIECE OF SCRAP METAL FROM A CAR OR OIL DRUM OR SOMETHING. THE SHAFT DOES SHOW WEAR AND MOST OF THE HAIR IS GONE FROM THE HIDE COVER SO IT MAY HAVE SEEN SOME LOCAL USE?.

7th February 2014, 08:13 PM	#13
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi, Met a friend today whom I hadn't seen in a while, his family owned a farm in Kenya from the early 1920's through to the late 1970's and he was born and brought up in Kenya. They actually owned two farms one of which was adjacent to the Maasai reserve. I described this spear to him and his unreserved opinion was that this is tourist stuff, older tourist, but definitely tourist. As far as I'm concerned this conundrum has been put to bed and I'll now consign this spear to the scrapheap Regards, Norman. Last edited by Norman McCormick; 7th February 2014 at 11:24 PM.

8th February 2014, 01:59 AM	#14
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	VANDOOS SCRAP HEAP IS AVALABLE FOR ALL SUCH CAST OFFS

3rd March 2014, 01:40 PM	#16
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	I was watching the BBC comedy TV show "Blandings" yesterday evening, and saw Clarence (Lord Emsworth), has a spear like this one in the corner of his study, next to a Zulu shield. See www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer