knife for comment

galvano · 11th June 2006, 07:27 PM

hello all
Here a knife.
I think that it is of Burma.
I would like your opinion.
By advance thank you

Tim Simmons · 11th June 2006, 07:51 PM

Very interesting certainly looks like Burma. I like the flame engraving, nice handle reminds me of Bhutan or even Tibet. There has been more unusual Burma? knives coming to light recently.

ariel · 11th June 2006, 07:56 PM

The handle, the fullers, the clipped blade and the theme of flames remind me more of Tibet/Bhutan than Burma

drdavid · 12th June 2006, 12:28 AM

Blade shape and heaviness also make me think Tibet/Bhutan.
DrD

Andrew · 12th June 2006, 01:31 AM

I don't think this is Burmese. The faceted, stacked and segmented handle is unlike any Burmese knife I've seen. The blade profile does resemble some Burmese and Thai knives, but the particular combination of elements leads me away from that region.

The bolster at the forte reminds me of a Chinese tonkou. I'm not really very familiar with the weapons of Tibet and Bhutan, but I would look more towards a Chinese influence than SEA.

I like that knife alot. Thanks for sharing it.

pmacleman · 17th June 2006, 11:50 AM

I bought a knife with an almost identical blade 4 years ago when climbing in far W PRC. Far SW Yunnan province on PRC/TAR/Bhutan border. Blade was the same. Shape and dimensions of the grip and furniture the same however was black horn with silver furniture.

Hope this helps.

Paul

ariel · 17th June 2006, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmacleman

I bought a knife with an almost identical blade 4 years ago when climbing in far W PRC. Far SW Yunnan province on PRC/TAR/Bhutan border. Blade was the same. Shape and dimensions of the grip and furniture the same however was black horn with silver furniture.

Hope this helps.

Paul

Paul,
Congratulations with your first post!
Welcome to the Forum and hope to hear from you more often.
Ariel

Ian · 17th June 2006, 06:23 PM

Thanks Paul. Very helpful ID. Welcome to the Forum.

Galvano: I think you have something much more interesting than just another Burmese knife. Congrats on finding this one.

Ian.

Philip · 17th June 2006, 09:51 PM

The shape of the blade is something encountered across a fairly large area of China. Knives with heavy, somewhat leaf-shaped blades of this type have been showing up in the Beijing antiques markets for at least a decade. Interestingly, most of the ones that I have seen and handled have differently-styled grips. Although they share the same "waisted" profile, the ones I've encountered are of oval cross section and are composed of a slab-like gripscale held by several domed rivets (usually 4 or 5) on each side of a tapering blade tang whose contour matches the finished shape of the handle. These rivetted "slab" gripscales are also seen on the straight bladed knives (candao) encased in scabbards which may or not include chopsticks and other culinary utensils.

On the knife in question, the fullers that terminate shy of the grip itself are a feature common on Chinese saber blades. So is the pattern of narrow groove at spine, wider one below. The simple incised motifs at the ends of the fullers are reminiscent of a very similar characteristic on Vietnamese knife and saber blades, although the motifs on this particular example hint at a different aesthetic tradition. The brass sleeve at the base of the blade is a concept analogous to the "tunkou" on many Chinese saber blades, although the shape of this example is closer to its Vietnamese equivalents.

The "stacked" construction of this knife's grip is something found in other regions as well. You see a similar practice on the pommels of small Tibetan sheath knives and on the backswords or pallasches used by the Kham people of the eastern Tibetan hinterlands. In such cases, the stacking typically consists of alternating plates of iron and copper. I'm sure that the concept carries over to the entire grip of this knife.

A very interesting piece!

Andrew · 11th July 2006, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip

The shape of the blade is something encountered across a fairly large area of China. Knives with heavy, somewhat leaf-shaped blades of this type have been showing up in the Beijing antiques markets for at least a decade. Interestingly, most of the ones that I have seen and handled have differently-styled grips. Although they share the same "waisted" profile, the ones I've encountered are of oval cross section and are composed of a slab-like gripscale held by several domed rivets (usually 4 or 5) on each side of a tapering blade tang whose contour matches the finished shape of the handle. These rivetted "slab" gripscales are also seen on the straight bladed knives (candao) encased in scabbards which may or not include chopsticks and other culinary utensils.

On the knife in question, the fullers that terminate shy of the grip itself are a feature common on Chinese saber blades. So is the pattern of narrow groove at spine, wider one below. The simple incised motifs at the ends of the fullers are reminiscent of a very similar characteristic on Vietnamese knife and saber blades, although the motifs on this particular example hint at a different aesthetic tradition. The brass sleeve at the base of the blade is a concept analogous to the "tunkou" on many Chinese saber blades, although the shape of this example is closer to its Vietnamese equivalents.

The "stacked" construction of this knife's grip is something found in other regions as well. You see a similar practice on the pommels of small Tibetan sheath knives and on the backswords or pallasches used by the Kham people of the eastern Tibetan hinterlands. In such cases, the stacking typically consists of alternating plates of iron and copper. I'm sure that the concept carries over to the entire grip of this knife.

A very interesting piece!

Great post, Philip, thanks.

Doesn't stacked iron and copper plates for a handle sound awkward? Very little blade presence when a handle is massive.

Sajen · 25th December 2013, 04:32 PM

I am reading some old threads and stumble across this old thread and direct remember this not long ago sold dagger (see pictures). It is certainly from the same family. I think it is important for further resarch to add the pictures and as well the description from the seller:

"A VERY UNUSUAL AND RARE DHA - DAAB - DAO DAGGER - KNIFE WHICH I BELIEVE TO BE FROM THE UPPER VIETNAM LAOS YUNNAN BORDERS AND AGE 19THC.

THE INFLUENCES OF BOTH CHINA AND SOUTH EAST ASIA ARE HERE AND IT IS EVEN POSSBLE THAT THIS KNIFE HAILS FROM VIETNAM AS IT WAS PART OF A FRENCH INDO CHINESE 19THC COLLETION, I WOULD GO WITH ANY OF THE 3 ABOVE COUNTRIES FOR ORIGIN BUT IT IS A MYSTERY AND VERY HARD TO GET EXACT.

THE BLADE IS A HEAVY AND WELL MADE HAND FORGED ONE WITH TOP SINGLE BLOOD LET AND HOLLOW GROUND LARGER LET IN THE MIDDLE,IT HAS THE TYPICAL CHINESE STYLE TONKU FITTING IN BRONZE THAT I HAVE SEEN ON A NUMBER OF VIETNAMESE AND LAOS SWORDS IN THE PAST BUT NOT KNIVES AS SUCH, THE DECORATION ON THE BLADE TIO ME DOES SHOW VIETNAMESE INFLEUNCE BUT I COULD BE WELL WRONG HERE AND IT COULD EVEN BE CHINESE ?, THE LAMINATED PATTERNS THAT SHOW IN THE BLADE AFTER ETCH L;OOK VERY LAOS OR THAI TO ME AS I HAVE WORKED ON AND ETCHED AND POLISHED MANY BLADES FROM THIS AREA AND IT DOES REMIND ME OF THAT TYPICAL RANDOM PATTERN, THE SPINE OF THE BLADE IS THICK FOR THE SIZE OF THE KNIFE AT JUST OVER 1/ OF AN INCH AT THE FORTE, THE HILT FITTINGS AT TOP AND BOTTOM ARE MADE FROM A BRONZE TYPE ALLOY AND ARE THICK AND HEAVY, THERE IS ALSO A SECTIONAL GRIP WHICH IS MADE FROM HORN BONE SILVER AND BRASS, THE SPACERS IN BETWEEN THE PIECES OF HORN AND BONE BEING SILVER AND BRASS.

THE SCABBARD IS OF A PALM TYPE WOOD AND HAS ITS ORIGINAL WRAPPED CORD BINDING WITH FANCY NOT ON THE REAR, IT ALSO HAS ONE RATTAN PLATED RING BELOW THE CORD SECTION.

A VERY VERY UNUSUAL KNIFE FROM AN UNUSUAL AREA AND ALSO VERY WELL CONSTRUCTED AND HEAVY IN WEIGHT FOR ITS SIZE, MAYBE EVEN A THROWING KNIFE ?? A RARE ONE FOR THE SOUTH EAST ASIAN COLLECTOR OF EDGED WEAPONS.

size 10 ins in scabbard, blade 6 ins hilt 3-1/2 ins... heavy for size."

11th June 2006, 07:27 PM	#1
galvano Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 178	knife for comment hello all Here a knife. I think that it is of Burma. I would like your opinion. By advance thank you Attached Images

17th June 2006, 11:50 AM	#6
pmacleman Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 17	Location I bought a knife with an almost identical blade 4 years ago when climbing in far W PRC. Far SW Yunnan province on PRC/TAR/Bhutan border. Blade was the same. Shape and dimensions of the grip and furniture the same however was black horn with silver furniture. Hope this helps. Paul

17th June 2006, 09:51 PM	#9
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	more comments on origin of this knife The shape of the blade is something encountered across a fairly large area of China. Knives with heavy, somewhat leaf-shaped blades of this type have been showing up in the Beijing antiques markets for at least a decade. Interestingly, most of the ones that I have seen and handled have differently-styled grips. Although they share the same "waisted" profile, the ones I've encountered are of oval cross section and are composed of a slab-like gripscale held by several domed rivets (usually 4 or 5) on each side of a tapering blade tang whose contour matches the finished shape of the handle. These rivetted "slab" gripscales are also seen on the straight bladed knives (candao) encased in scabbards which may or not include chopsticks and other culinary utensils. On the knife in question, the fullers that terminate shy of the grip itself are a feature common on Chinese saber blades. So is the pattern of narrow groove at spine, wider one below. The simple incised motifs at the ends of the fullers are reminiscent of a very similar characteristic on Vietnamese knife and saber blades, although the motifs on this particular example hint at a different aesthetic tradition. The brass sleeve at the base of the blade is a concept analogous to the "tunkou" on many Chinese saber blades, although the shape of this example is closer to its Vietnamese equivalents. The "stacked" construction of this knife's grip is something found in other regions as well. You see a similar practice on the pommels of small Tibetan sheath knives and on the backswords or pallasches used by the Kham people of the eastern Tibetan hinterlands. In such cases, the stacking typically consists of alternating plates of iron and copper. I'm sure that the concept carries over to the entire grip of this knife. A very interesting piece! Last edited by Philip; 17th June 2006 at 09:54 PM. Reason: adding more info

25th December 2013, 04:32 PM	#11
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,783	I am reading some old threads and stumble across this old thread and direct remember this not long ago sold dagger (see pictures). It is certainly from the same family. I think it is important for further resarch to add the pictures and as well the description from the seller: "A VERY UNUSUAL AND RARE DHA - DAAB - DAO DAGGER - KNIFE WHICH I BELIEVE TO BE FROM THE UPPER VIETNAM LAOS YUNNAN BORDERS AND AGE 19THC. THE INFLUENCES OF BOTH CHINA AND SOUTH EAST ASIA ARE HERE AND IT IS EVEN POSSBLE THAT THIS KNIFE HAILS FROM VIETNAM AS IT WAS PART OF A FRENCH INDO CHINESE 19THC COLLETION, I WOULD GO WITH ANY OF THE 3 ABOVE COUNTRIES FOR ORIGIN BUT IT IS A MYSTERY AND VERY HARD TO GET EXACT. THE BLADE IS A HEAVY AND WELL MADE HAND FORGED ONE WITH TOP SINGLE BLOOD LET AND HOLLOW GROUND LARGER LET IN THE MIDDLE,IT HAS THE TYPICAL CHINESE STYLE TONKU FITTING IN BRONZE THAT I HAVE SEEN ON A NUMBER OF VIETNAMESE AND LAOS SWORDS IN THE PAST BUT NOT KNIVES AS SUCH, THE DECORATION ON THE BLADE TIO ME DOES SHOW VIETNAMESE INFLEUNCE BUT I COULD BE WELL WRONG HERE AND IT COULD EVEN BE CHINESE ?, THE LAMINATED PATTERNS THAT SHOW IN THE BLADE AFTER ETCH L;OOK VERY LAOS OR THAI TO ME AS I HAVE WORKED ON AND ETCHED AND POLISHED MANY BLADES FROM THIS AREA AND IT DOES REMIND ME OF THAT TYPICAL RANDOM PATTERN, THE SPINE OF THE BLADE IS THICK FOR THE SIZE OF THE KNIFE AT JUST OVER 1/ OF AN INCH AT THE FORTE, THE HILT FITTINGS AT TOP AND BOTTOM ARE MADE FROM A BRONZE TYPE ALLOY AND ARE THICK AND HEAVY, THERE IS ALSO A SECTIONAL GRIP WHICH IS MADE FROM HORN BONE SILVER AND BRASS, THE SPACERS IN BETWEEN THE PIECES OF HORN AND BONE BEING SILVER AND BRASS. THE SCABBARD IS OF A PALM TYPE WOOD AND HAS ITS ORIGINAL WRAPPED CORD BINDING WITH FANCY NOT ON THE REAR, IT ALSO HAS ONE RATTAN PLATED RING BELOW THE CORD SECTION. A VERY VERY UNUSUAL KNIFE FROM AN UNUSUAL AREA AND ALSO VERY WELL CONSTRUCTED AND HEAVY IN WEIGHT FOR ITS SIZE, MAYBE EVEN A THROWING KNIFE ?? A RARE ONE FOR THE SOUTH EAST ASIAN COLLECTOR OF EDGED WEAPONS. size 10 ins in scabbard, blade 6 ins hilt 3-1/2 ins... heavy for size." Attached Images

11th June 2006, 07:51 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Very interesting certainly looks like Burma. I like the flame engraving, nice handle reminds me of Bhutan or even Tibet. There has been more unusual Burma? knives coming to light recently.

11th June 2006, 07:56 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The handle, the fullers, the clipped blade and the theme of flames remind me more of Tibet/Bhutan than Burma

12th June 2006, 12:28 AM	#4
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 371	Blade shape and heaviness also make me think Tibet/Bhutan. DrD

12th June 2006, 01:31 AM	#5
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I don't think this is Burmese. The faceted, stacked and segmented handle is unlike any Burmese knife I've seen. The blade profile does resemble some Burmese and Thai knives, but the particular combination of elements leads me away from that region. The bolster at the forte reminds me of a Chinese tonkou. I'm not really very familiar with the weapons of Tibet and Bhutan, but I would look more towards a Chinese influence than SEA. I like that knife alot. Thanks for sharing it.

17th June 2006, 06:23 PM	#8
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Thanks Paul. Very helpful ID. Welcome to the Forum. Galvano: I think you have something much more interesting than just another Burmese knife. Congrats on finding this one. Ian.