New barong from epray

Sajen · 10th August 2012, 06:09 PM

Have won this barong from epray recently: http://www.ebay.com/itm/120961143777...84.m1439.l2648
Any information is very welcome, age, area and so on. And have someone good informations how I can remove the shellac coating from the barong without destroy patina? Haven't received it yet.

Thank you in advance,

Detlef

Lew · 11th August 2012, 04:22 AM

Very nice older barong. My guess it is from Samal. The carvings on the pommel are similar to mine and mine is Samal.

David · 11th August 2012, 06:49 AM

I'd say you got a good deal on that Detlef. If i had seen that auction i might have given you a bidding war.

Still looking for the right barong for the right price.

Rick · 11th August 2012, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I'd say you got a good deal on that Detlef. If i had seen that auction i might have given you a bidding war.

Still looking for the right barong for the right price.

Hi David !

Spunjer · 11th August 2012, 01:37 PM

nice warrior's barung, detlef! are the wraps leather, or twine?

Sajen · 11th August 2012, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lew

Very nice older barong. My guess it is from Samal. The carvings on the pommel are similar to mine and mine is Samal.

Hello Lew,

thank you for the hint of origin. Indeed similar carvings!

Regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 11th August 2012, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I'd say you got a good deal on that Detlef. If i had seen that auction i might have given you a bidding war.

Still looking for the right barong for the right price.

Good that you haven't seen it!

I am sure you will find one by time. To be open I never have thought that I will get it by this price.

Regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 11th August 2012, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

nice warrior's barung, detlef! are the wraps leather, or twine?

Thank's, don't know but think it's twine. Haven't received it yet.

Regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 11th August 2012, 04:29 PM

Any suggestions how I can remove the coating from shellac?

Indianajones · 11th August 2012, 10:38 PM

Hi Sajen, yep nice one. Saw it but isnt my stuff. I bet the handle is 'twine' covered with black paste (resin; authentic).
To remove the shellack I would use paintremover; a tin of fluid acid that only reacts on the chemical lack but not with the organic material! Doesnt cost much and is bit acid to the skin (!). Apply richly to the handle >no worries< and wait (sometimes it take a while before working) and perhaps best is to whipe it off carefully with tissue in combi with an extra soft toothbrush for the holes etc. Or wash it quickly off with hot water (n toothbrush) and dry immediately after with tissue. Water will probably take more patine off than the 'dry tissue-whipe' method.

Good luck. Btw been sawing that billiardball already?!? he he he. Would love to see you do that!

Greets Wouter

Sajen · 11th August 2012, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indianajones

Hi Sajen, yep nice one. Saw it but isnt my stuff. I bet the handle is 'twine' covered with black paste (resin; authentic).
To remove the shellack I would use paintremover; a tin of fluid acid that only reacts on the chemical lack but not with the organic material! Doesnt cost much and is bit acid to the skin (!). Apply richly to the handle >no worries< and wait (sometimes it take a while before working) and perhaps best is to whipe it off carefully with tissue in combi with an extra soft toothbrush for the holes etc. Or wash it quickly off with hot water (n toothbrush) and dry immediately after with tissue. Water will probably take more patine off than the 'dry tissue-whipe' method.

Good luck. Btw been sawing that billiardball already?!? he he he. Would love to see you do that!

Greets Wouter

Hi Wouter,

you have tried it before? What is with benzine?

Haven't tried to saw the the billard ball until now!

Greets,

Detlef

kai · 13th August 2012, 11:08 AM

Hello Wouter,

Quote:

To remove the shellack I would use paintremover; a tin of fluid acid that only reacts on the chemical lack but not with the organic material! Doesnt cost much and is bit acid to the skin (!). Apply richly to the handle >no worries< and wait (sometimes it take a while before working) and perhaps best is to whipe it off carefully with tissue in combi with an extra soft toothbrush for the holes etc. Or wash it quickly off with hot water (n toothbrush) and dry immediately after with tissue. Water will probably take more patine off than the 'dry tissue-whipe' method.

I am not a professional conservateur but this sounds pretty terrifying! I don't think any chemical paint remover should be used on any antique unless it has been proven to be harmless (long-term preservation rather than just cosmetic short-term appearance) on all materials involved.

Detlef, shellac is easily soluble in ethanol which will be much gentler to wood but still suck out some oils. What do you wish to remove, exactly?

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 13th August 2012, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Wouter,

I am not a professional conservateur but this sounds pretty terrifying! I don't think any chemical paint remover should be used on any antique unless it has been proven to be harmless (long-term preservation rather than just cosmetic short-term appearance) on all materials involved.

Detlef, shellac is easily soluble in ethanol which will be much gentler to wood but still suck out some oils. What do you wish to remove, exactly?

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,

I am with you, I am afraid to use paint remover!

Look to the description from the seller. He states that the complete barong is covered with shellac which I plan to remove.

Regards,

Detlef

Rick · 13th August 2012, 04:19 PM

Detlef, was I you I would only try to remove the 'shellac' from the exposed parts of the silver Punto .

You get into that wood and fiber with solvent and you will have a real mess on your hands .

Wood alchohol will remove the stuff from the silver with patience and a little rubbing .

Indianajones · 14th August 2012, 10:34 PM

Hi all, yes paintremover is quite an agressive stuff, but that is also the good think about it! One doesnt need to rub and brush and use substances that penetrate the wood etc!!!
It will just only affect the shellack and NOT the wood or organic matter and also patine. (it is like a siliconejam you put on top and does NOT penetrate materials)
Meaning; one does not need to rub and brush the piece thoroughly and therefore rubbing off patine and destroying the dried out materials under.

Yes I have used this myself quite often and I mostly clean it off just putting the object -already having the remover doing its work- under the (semi)hot running water and a very soft brush and dry it immediately after.
Bit slight oiling of the wood and you'l see the piece come to life.

Any method will take some patine off and -as a 'patineman' myself- I think this is the savest way to preserve any of that.

Even if you have never dealt with it before it is quite safe but just dont put it on your hands or eyes and it does have a 'stingy' gas coming from it. But can easily and without damage be put on organic materials and be whiped away.

You are becoming a handyman, arent you?!? He he. Good luck with any method you choose.
Best, Wouter

Lee · 15th August 2012, 12:05 AM

Shellac will quickly dissolve in ordinary rubbing alcohol (70% isopropyl). So you could cautiously try a bit of that; if it does not dissolve it, then it is likely lacquer or another modern coating that will require a more powerful solvent.

Sajen · 16th August 2012, 05:52 PM

Thank you all for your inputs, when I have received it I will try at first to clean it with isopropyl carefully at some points to see how it works. Will keep you updated.

Sajen · 11th March 2018, 08:08 PM

I've now can post first pictures of my restore work!

I was able to remove most of the coating with acetone, no other solution want to work. I've fixed carefully the opened scabbard and started to polish the blade, one side is nearly finished with 180 grit and show already a hardened edge. The handle ferrule is worked from white brass. Here some pictures.

Battara · 11th March 2018, 09:40 PM

Nice work dude!

Sajen · 11th March 2018, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Nice work dude!

Thank you bro!

carlos · 12th March 2018, 10:02 AM

Congratulations!!! Very ince work!!!

Sajen · 12th March 2018, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlos

Congratulations!!! Very ince work!!!

Thank you mate!

kai · 12th March 2018, 08:39 PM

Hello Detlef,

Nice barung - I'm looking forward to the etch!

Quote:

I was able to remove most of the coating with acetone, no other solution want to work.

Just to confirm: I guess you did not tried Wouter's suggestion for paint remover?

BTW, the scabbard tip is made from horn?

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 12th March 2018, 08:55 PM

Hello Kai,
thank you!

No, I don't try paint remover! And yes, scabbard tip is from horn.

Regards,
Detlef

Rick · 13th March 2018, 12:47 AM

Six years between your first post and your latest!
Did you misplace it for some time; or do you have a backlog of restorations to do that is that big??

Sajen · 13th March 2018, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Six years between your first post and your latest!
Did you misplace it for some time; or do you have a backlog of restorations to do that is that big??

Hello Rick,

yes, I've noticed the same.

By this you can see how fast the time went.

It's the latter, there are a lot of pieces which need still care before I am happy with them.

Blade polish is the hardest job which I don't like really. And some things need the correct way to get finished, so I've tried many different solutions for removing the coating from the handle and scabbard, benzine, alcohol and some other before I tried acetone. Time is another problem when you working. An ideal would be to have all items in such a good condition like this other barong: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=barong or this dao: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=kachin But sadly there are a lot of items which can need similar care. But I think every collector know this problem!

Regards,
Detlef

Rafngard · 13th March 2018, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

It's the latter, there are a lot of pieces which need still care before I am happy with them.
...
Blade polish is the hardest job which I don't like really. But sadly there are a lot of items which can need similar care. But I think every collector know this problem!

I find that it's a lot easier to spend a little money on an item with a lot of potential than it is to spend a lot of time (polishing, which I also don't like) to make that potential happen.

So yes, I too have a big back log.

Have fun,
Leif

Rick · 13th March 2018, 02:47 AM

Too many are never enough.
and:
So many swords, so little time...

Treeslicer · 13th March 2018, 03:47 AM

Looks really good, Detlef. Lots of stuff worth buying on eBay, like those excellent keris handles and mendak you sold me.

Rafngard · 13th March 2018, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Too many are never enough.
and:
So many swords, so little time...

Truer words have never been spoken.

10th August 2012, 06:09 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	New barong from epray Have won this barong from epray recently: http://www.ebay.com/itm/120961143777...84.m1439.l2648 Any information is very welcome, age, area and so on. And have someone good informations how I can remove the shellac coating from the barong without destroy patina? Haven't received it yet. Thank you in advance, Detlef Attached Images

11th August 2012, 04:22 AM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Very nice older barong. My guess it is from Samal. The carvings on the pommel are similar to mine and mine is Samal. Attached Images

11th March 2018, 08:08 PM	#18
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	I've now can post first pictures of my restore work! I was able to remove most of the coating with acetone, no other solution want to work. I've fixed carefully the opened scabbard and started to polish the blade, one side is nearly finished with 180 grit and show already a hardened edge. The handle ferrule is worked from white brass. Here some pictures. Attached Images

11th August 2012, 06:49 AM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,126	I'd say you got a good deal on that Detlef. If i had seen that auction i might have given you a bidding war. Still looking for the right barong for the right price.

11th August 2012, 01:37 PM	#5
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	nice warrior's barung, detlef! are the wraps leather, or twine?

11th August 2012, 04:29 PM	#9
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Any suggestions how I can remove the coating from shellac?

11th August 2012, 10:38 PM	#10
Indianajones Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 180	Hi Sajen, yep nice one. Saw it but isnt my stuff. I bet the handle is 'twine' covered with black paste (resin; authentic). To remove the shellack I would use paintremover; a tin of fluid acid that only reacts on the chemical lack but not with the organic material! Doesnt cost much and is bit acid to the skin (!). Apply richly to the handle >no worries< and wait (sometimes it take a while before working) and perhaps best is to whipe it off carefully with tissue in combi with an extra soft toothbrush for the holes etc. Or wash it quickly off with hot water (n toothbrush) and dry immediately after with tissue. Water will probably take more patine off than the 'dry tissue-whipe' method. Good luck. Btw been sawing that billiardball already?!? he he he. Would love to see you do that! Greets Wouter

13th August 2012, 04:19 PM	#14
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Detlef, was I you I would only try to remove the 'shellac' from the exposed parts of the silver Punto . You get into that wood and fiber with solvent and you will have a real mess on your hands . Wood alchohol will remove the stuff from the silver with patience and a little rubbing .

14th August 2012, 10:34 PM	#15
Indianajones Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 180	Hi all, yes paintremover is quite an agressive stuff, but that is also the good think about it! One doesnt need to rub and brush and use substances that penetrate the wood etc!!! It will just only affect the shellack and NOT the wood or organic matter and also patine. (it is like a siliconejam you put on top and does NOT penetrate materials) Meaning; one does not need to rub and brush the piece thoroughly and therefore rubbing off patine and destroying the dried out materials under. Yes I have used this myself quite often and I mostly clean it off just putting the object -already having the remover doing its work- under the (semi)hot running water and a very soft brush and dry it immediately after. Bit slight oiling of the wood and you'l see the piece come to life. Any method will take some patine off and -as a 'patineman' myself- I think this is the savest way to preserve any of that. Even if you have never dealt with it before it is quite safe but just dont put it on your hands or eyes and it does have a 'stingy' gas coming from it. But can easily and without damage be put on organic materials and be whiped away. You are becoming a handyman, arent you?!? He he. Good luck with any method you choose. Best, Wouter

15th August 2012, 12:05 AM	#16
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	Shellac will quickly dissolve in ordinary rubbing alcohol (70% isopropyl). So you could cautiously try a bit of that; if it does not dissolve it, then it is likely lacquer or another modern coating that will require a more powerful solvent.

16th August 2012, 05:52 PM	#17
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Thank you all for your inputs, when I have received it I will try at first to clean it with isopropyl carefully at some points to see how it works. Will keep you updated.

11th March 2018, 09:40 PM	#19
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	Nice work dude!

12th March 2018, 10:02 AM	#21
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 738	Congratulations!!! Very ince work!!!

12th March 2018, 08:55 PM	#24
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Hello Kai, thank you! No, I don't try paint remover! And yes, scabbard tip is from horn. Regards, Detlef

13th March 2018, 12:47 AM	#25
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Six years between your first post and your latest! Did you misplace it for some time; or do you have a backlog of restorations to do that is that big??

13th March 2018, 02:47 AM	#28
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Too many are never enough. and: So many swords, so little time...

13th March 2018, 03:47 AM	#29
Treeslicer Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 65	Looks really good, Detlef. Lots of stuff worth buying on eBay, like those excellent keris handles and mendak you sold me.