Two Pade

Sajen · 28th June 2009, 05:48 PM

Dear members,

I am happy that I am able to show you my two new friends. Two rare Pade from Ceram.
The first one I swap with a member, sorry Carlos and Ericlaude.

It is 68 cm long and 9 mm thick at the base. The end cap of the handle is missing. It have had thick corrosion at the blade and I cleaned it with lemon acid.

Sajen · 28th June 2009, 05:56 PM

The second one I get from a very good netherlands dealer who do also a superb restore job for the end cap of the handle.

It is 77 cm long and 10 mm thick at the base.

It will be nice to read your comments and when possible to see other Pade from you, thank's in advance.

sajen

ariel · 28th June 2009, 07:18 PM

Good grief!
There is no end to the variety of shapes and names of Indonesian weapons.
Albert, we need another book, or Vol.2 :-)
Seriously, it seems that every nook and cranny of every village on every speck of an island had its own variant. And I am not talking about Krises.....
In comparison, even Caucasian kindjals look monotonous.

Maurice · 28th June 2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

It will be nice to read your comments and when possible to see other Pade from you, thank's in advance.

sajen

Hi Sajen,

They are both from dutchmen!

I also liked both pade's, but was too late with the last one, and I was negotiating with the first one you depicted in this thread. Happily for you it didn,t come to an agreement.

Nice pieces, congratulations!

Maurice

carlos · 28th June 2009, 08:52 PM

Hi Sajen!!
congratulations for this pair of pade!! They are marvellous, I´m happy to see you are the owner of this piece!!
Thanks
carlos

Sajen · 28th June 2009, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Good grief!
There is no end to the variety of shapes and names of Indonesian weapons.
Albert, we need another book, or Vol.2 :-)
Seriously, it seems that every nook and cranny of every village on every speck of an island had its own variant. And I am not talking about Krises.....
In comparison, even Caucasian kindjals look monotonous.

Hello Ariel,

Albert show a few examples in his book at page 70/71, No. 261, 262 and I think that also 270 is a Pade.

sajen

Sajen · 28th June 2009, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

Hi Sajen,

They are both from dutchmen!

I also liked both pade's, but was too late with the last one, and I was negotiating with the first one you depicted in this thread. Happily for you it didn,t come to an agreement.

Nice pieces, congratulations!

Maurice

Thank you Maurice.

Sajen · 28th June 2009, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlos

Hi Sajen!!
congratulations for this pair of pade!! They are marvellous, I´m happy to see you are the owner of this piece!!
Thanks
carlos

Hi Carlos,

also to you thank you for compliment, maybe the next on market will be your's.

sajen

VVV · 4th July 2009, 02:51 PM

Nice ones,

I like the Pade and their different variations.
Also they are fun to try out and slash with.
Here are a couple of other variations from Sulawesi and Moluccas/Ceram.

Michael

Sajen · 4th July 2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Nice ones,

I like the Pade and their different variations.
Also they are fun to try out and slash with.
Here are a couple of other variations from Sulawesi and Moluccas/Ceram.

Michael

Hello Michael,

great examples! Thank you for sharing. One you show me already before. Which one do you think is from Sulawesi? And by what you can see the differents?

Detlef

Sajen · 4th July 2009, 03:38 PM

There are other members with Pade who like to show them?

sajen

VVV · 4th July 2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Michael,

great examples! Thank you for sharing. One you show me already before. Which one do you think is from Sulawesi? And by what you can see the differents?

Detlef

Hi Detlef,

I guess the center one, of the three, is from Sulawesi as most of this variation has been collected in SE Sulawesi.
But that´s really hard to say because this sword is in fact ethnic, not regional.

Kind regards,

Michael

Sajen · 4th July 2009, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Hi Detlef,

I guess the center one, of the three, is from Sulawesi as most of this variation has been collected in SE Sulawesi.
But that´s really hard to say because this sword is in fact ethnic, not regional.

Kind regards,

Michael

Hi Michael,

the first one I show is from Ceram for sure. What do you guess is the second one from?

Kind regards,

Detlef

Royston · 4th July 2009, 06:16 PM

Gents

Is this one ?

Had it for a long time but was never sure what it was.

Royston

Sajen · 4th July 2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royston

Gents

Is this one ?

Had it for a long time but was never sure what it was.

Royston

Hi Royston,

yes, IMO the blade form is typical for a Pade. But I never have seen a handle like this. Maybe Michael know more. Very nice sword! When you ever bore it ......

sajen

VVV · 4th July 2009, 10:13 PM

My guess is that Deltef´s second one is Moluccan, based on the blade shape.
Roy´s is indeed a pade but I haven´t either seen a handle like that before in any museum or other collection.
Does the handle look to have the same age as the rest of the sword?

Michael

Maurice · 4th July 2009, 10:20 PM

Interesting thread this turns out to be. Although I have no pade myself (only I have handled some in privat collections of others), I like them very much and in some way I am attracted to the awesome shape of these blades.
Nice pieces Michael and Roy.
I also checked my database and I could neither find a pade with a handle like the one of Roy's pade. It looks like some kind of fish-figure to me.

Maurice

Sajen · 4th July 2009, 11:26 PM

Hi Royston,

please you can show us a close up from the handle?

sajen

Royston · 5th July 2009, 09:43 AM

Sajen
Michael
Maurice

Glad you like it. Thanks for the comments.

I will post some more photo's, but I am away from home at work for the next couple of weeks so it will have to wait until I get home.
Sad B that I am I carry a hard drive around with me and it does contain a sample of photo's from my collection but not everything in detail. There is only this one picture of the pade.

Please be patient. I will get back to you.

VVV · 5th July 2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

...Roy´s is indeed a pade but I haven´t either seen a handle like that before in any museum or other collection...

Oops, I forgot to look in my own collection.
I just remember that I have a Pade myself with a resembling hilt of green horn.
That pade is quite late however, maybe from the 70´s.
I will post a picture when back home again.

Michael

Mytribalworld · 5th July 2009, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

Interesting thread this turns out to be. Although I have no pade myself (only I have handled some in privat collections of others), I like them very much and in some way I am attracted to the awesome shape of these blades.
Nice pieces Michael and Roy.
I also checked my database and I could neither find a pade with a handle like the one of Roy's pade. It looks like some kind of fish-figure to me.

Maurice

Nice thread BTW!
I think the Pade of Royston is a traded blade from South east Celebes and the handle looks into the direction of a Tobelo ( Halmahera,Moluccas) handle.

Arjan.

VVV · 6th July 2009, 06:45 PM

Here is the late Pade I mentioned above.
Arjan, what´s your source for Tobelo?

Michael

Mytribalworld · 6th July 2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Here is the late Pade I mentioned above.
Arjan, what´s your source for Tobelo?

Michael

Hi Michael,

A small booklet called Tobelo " De waarde der dingen" about bride gifts in the Mollucan Tobelo culture where a few swords are pictured with more or less the same hilts. I will see if I can find it.

Arjan.

Sajen · 6th July 2009, 10:03 PM

Hello Arjan and Michael,

I show a picture of this small book from the swords already in this threat:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=pade

When I look to the sheat from Michael's newer Pade I have to think more to Sulawesi sword sheats.
I sold not long ago a sword (maybe a wall decoration from Indonesia) with a similar hilt.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=300312396934

Maybe this hilt form is not unkommon for the region?

sajen

VVV · 6th July 2009, 10:48 PM

Then I know which book you mean.
I don´t think the hilts and the swords shown in this book is that close to
Roy´s chopper.
In the Leiden collection there are 2 resembling swords found in Yamdena.
But I haven´t seen any "closer resembling" Roy´s blade- and hilt-wise in Leiden.
On my later chopper I also suspect that it´s SE Sulawesi, both sheath and blade.

Michael

Mytribalworld · 14th July 2009, 08:15 PM

Pades from Kei Islands

Sajen · 14th July 2009, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandaukudi

Pades from Kei Islands

Thank you for sharing Arjan. You can give the resource?

sajen

Mytribalworld · 14th July 2009, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Thank you for sharing Arjan. You can give the resource?

sajen

Hi Sajen,

Pleyte, C. M. 1893 Ethnographische atlas van de Zuidwester- en Zuidooster-Eilanden

Arjan.

Mytribalworld · 14th July 2009, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandaukudi

Hi Sajen,

Pleyte, C. M. 1893 Ethnographische atlas van de Zuidwester- en Zuidooster-Eilanden

Arjan.

here the Wetar plate.

Royston · 22nd July 2009, 10:03 PM

Gents

Surprised ( and pleased ) at the interest in this one.
It looks like cow or buffalo horn to me.

Here are some more photographs

Roy

28th June 2009, 05:48 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Two Pade Dear members, I am happy that I am able to show you my two new friends. Two rare Pade from Ceram. The first one I swap with a member, sorry Carlos and Ericlaude. It is 68 cm long and 9 mm thick at the base. The end cap of the handle is missing. It have had thick corrosion at the blade and I cleaned it with lemon acid. Attached Images

28th June 2009, 05:56 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	The second one I get from a very good netherlands dealer who do also a superb restore job for the end cap of the handle. It is 77 cm long and 10 mm thick at the base. It will be nice to read your comments and when possible to see other Pade from you, thank's in advance. sajen Attached Images

28th June 2009, 08:52 PM	#5
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 738	Congratulations!! Hi Sajen!! congratulations for this pair of pade!! They are marvellous, I´m happy to see you are the owner of this piece!! Thanks carlos

4th July 2009, 02:51 PM	#9
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Nice ones, I like the Pade and their different variations. Also they are fun to try out and slash with. Here are a couple of other variations from Sulawesi and Moluccas/Ceram. Michael Attached Images

4th July 2009, 06:16 PM	#14
Royston Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Poole England Posts: 443	Pade Gents Is this one ? Had it for a long time but was never sure what it was. Royston Attached Images

28th June 2009, 07:18 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Good grief! There is no end to the variety of shapes and names of Indonesian weapons. Albert, we need another book, or Vol.2 :-) Seriously, it seems that every nook and cranny of every village on every speck of an island had its own variant. And I am not talking about Krises..... In comparison, even Caucasian kindjals look monotonous.

4th July 2009, 03:38 PM	#11
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	There are other members with Pade who like to show them? sajen

4th July 2009, 10:13 PM	#16
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	My guess is that Deltef´s second one is Moluccan, based on the blade shape. Roy´s is indeed a pade but I haven´t either seen a handle like that before in any museum or other collection. Does the handle look to have the same age as the rest of the sword? Michael

4th July 2009, 10:20 PM	#17
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,349	Interesting thread this turns out to be. Although I have no pade myself (only I have handled some in privat collections of others), I like them very much and in some way I am attracted to the awesome shape of these blades. Nice pieces Michael and Roy. I also checked my database and I could neither find a pade with a handle like the one of Roy's pade. It looks like some kind of fish-figure to me. Maurice

4th July 2009, 11:26 PM	#18
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Hi Royston, please you can show us a close up from the handle? sajen

5th July 2009, 09:43 AM	#19
Royston Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Poole England Posts: 443	More photo's Sajen Michael Maurice Glad you like it. Thanks for the comments. I will post some more photo's, but I am away from home at work for the next couple of weeks so it will have to wait until I get home. Sad B that I am I carry a hard drive around with me and it does contain a sample of photo's from my collection but not everything in detail. There is only this one picture of the pade. Please be patient. I will get back to you.

6th July 2009, 06:45 PM	#22
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Here is the late Pade I mentioned above. Arjan, what´s your source for Tobelo? Michael Attached Images

6th July 2009, 10:03 PM	#24
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Hello Arjan and Michael, I show a picture of this small book from the swords already in this threat: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=pade When I look to the sheat from Michael's newer Pade I have to think more to Sulawesi sword sheats. I sold not long ago a sword (maybe a wall decoration from Indonesia) with a similar hilt. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=300312396934 Maybe this hilt form is not unkommon for the region? sajen

6th July 2009, 10:48 PM	#25
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Then I know which book you mean. I don´t think the hilts and the swords shown in this book is that close to Roy´s chopper. In the Leiden collection there are 2 resembling swords found in Yamdena. But I haven´t seen any "closer resembling" Roy´s blade- and hilt-wise in Leiden. On my later chopper I also suspect that it´s SE Sulawesi, both sheath and blade. Michael

14th July 2009, 08:15 PM	#26
Mytribalworld Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 400	more pades Pades from Kei Islands Attached Images

22nd July 2009, 10:03 PM	#30
Royston Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Poole England Posts: 443	More pade photos Gents Surprised ( and pleased ) at the interest in this one. It looks like cow or buffalo horn to me. Here are some more photographs Roy Attached Images