Unusual old barung

Ian · 23rd February 2005, 12:22 AM

This one just finished on eBay, and the hilt is unusual -- no kakatua:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7301459593

This hilt reminds me of one that Battara restored a while ago and which we discussed here: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002259.html

[Battara's reconstruction of that silver junggayan kakatua is my avatar today.]

I believe the one that just finished on eBay had, at one time, a similar valuable junggayan kakatua that was lost or removed (perhaps for sale), with a silver cap being used to cover the end of the hilt. The ivory and horn or ebony spacers visible below the silver cap were often found on high end junggayan barung (Battara and I did some reseach on this when he was restoring my other barung).

So I think the one that just finished on eBay likely started life as a high end, datu quality, junggayan barung, but later the family fell on hard times and sold off the kakatua. The rest of the barung looks to be fairly high quality too, and the sword with its scabbard may well be 19th C. I think I got a good deal on this one.

A question for the Moro collectors -- Should the hilt be restored to the former glory it may have had, or be left in its present state?

Federico · 23rd February 2005, 01:19 AM

The ability for ivory jungayan barongs to lose their cockatuas due to an inherent fragility of structual design (the cockatua is fastened to the puhan via a plug due to the size of the ivory needed in much the same way as many kris cockatua are attached) is unfortunately a common occurance. Given chipping and the rigors of a combat environment I could easily envisage this piece losing its cockatua due to wear and tear. I own one who has lost its cockatua, amongst other things (it is missing a 1/3" off the tip, someone ran through it with a belt grinder, and suffers pitting in the extreme). Ive also encountered a number of higher end jungayans that have replacement cockatuas, including my own ivory hilted barong.

Anyways, for a piece like this, that has already had some restoration done, I would vote for no further restoration, barring a new pristine ivory cockatua. If only for financial reasons alone. The cost of purchasing the amount of ivory needed to recarve a a new cockatua would be many times the cost of the barong itself, added to that would be the cost of finding an artisan capable of doing such work. If the barong had no restoration done, and was in rough shape like my own, I would vote for restoration of some kind. However, again the cost and artist prohibition against a new ivory cockatua are daunting. I really really really like Battara's ivory cockatua on your barong, and think if any restoration was to be done, that an silver alternative may be the most cost effective and still restore dignity to a piece. The simple silver cap on this piece though is also a nice alternative, if only a stop gap measure. Now of course, if one found a spare cockatua, or happened to have oodles of money laying around for an ivory purchase, that would change the situation. But in the end my argument is on a purely financially practical level. A new ivory cockatua may cost far far more than the fully restored barong itself. Anyways, there are enough unique features on this barong, that at least in my opinion as a novice collector, make it desirable in of in itself, and lend to the overall character of the piece thus negating the need for restoration. Hmmm...oh well Ive rambled. Anyways this is just my opinion. Ive left my own cockatualess barong cockatualess still because I cant decide what to do with it, so at least for me, restoration is a toughy decision. Then again I have a tendency not to completely restore pieces (eg. replace missing parts) just because the restoration always screams at me as being un-natural, no matter how well done. Preserve, fix the original parts as best I can, I can live with. But adding new parts always gnaws at my gut, making me question if I am doing the right thing, or if I am desecrating the piece. Oh wow talk about rambling.

RSWORD · 23rd February 2005, 03:32 AM

To cockatu or not to cockatu................................THAT is the question!

Ian · 23rd February 2005, 04:00 AM

Thanks Federico. I like your line of reasoning -- maybe enough restoration already to this one. Then again, Battara does do wonderful work. Decisions, decisions, decisions.

Federico · 23rd February 2005, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Thanks Federico. I like your line of reasoning -- maybe enough restoration already to this one. Then again, Battara does do wonderful work. Decisions, decisions, decisions.

Now if Battara were to have a sale on making silver cockatuas ....

Ian · 23rd February 2005, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Federico

Now if Battara were to have a sale on making silver cockatuas ....

.... we could keep him in business for a LOOOONG time!

Naga Basuki · 23rd February 2005, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Thanks Federico. I like your line of reasoning -- maybe enough restoration already to this one. Then again, Battara does do wonderful work. Decisions, decisions, decisions.

No question in my mind. With the incredible work Battara can do, restore that barong! The only decision would be cost vs wallet resources.

CharlesS · 23rd February 2005, 04:04 PM

....first let me say I bow my head in shame at what my "southern brutha from anotha mutha"(RSword) said above!!....good lawd Rick!

As for restoration I agree with the "leave it be" crowd. Were a portion of the cockatou missing, I'd say go for it, but in this case you would be essentially rebuilding the most "artsie" part of the hilt, making it "new". This would only be for some one intending to keep the barong for a very long time, accepting its restored features. Once such a change is made the collectiblity of the barong will go down in the eyes of many....one, because of its new addition, regardless of quality, and secondly because there is no guarantee the restoration is correct to what the original hilt actually had..

Battara · 23rd February 2005, 11:56 PM

You people are wonderful for my self-esteem.

Obvioiusly I am on the side of restoration. There are many that do accept restoration, provided that the restoration would not damage what is already there nor takes away from the piece. Artzi does a lot of restorations as well as many on this form besides me.

When it comes to ivory on this piece, I would have to look into the amount for pre-ban ivory. Silver or even dark wood with ivory pieces would be a little cheaper. This piece does not seem to need too much restoration except for the missing pommel. Of course one other thing to consider is that restorations and replacements happened over the life of many pieces. Here I especially see Charles' point (every pun intended

). IF I were to do an ivory pommel, I would recommend a slimmer and less elaborate ivory pommel than that found on Artzi's website. If wood, maybe dark wood with ivory pieces, if silver, then....oh, yeah, silver.

Ian · 25th February 2005, 05:25 AM

Battara:

If I have room in my case I will bring it to Timonium and we can discuss.

Ian.

23rd February 2005, 12:22 AM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Unusual old barung This one just finished on eBay, and the hilt is unusual -- no kakatua: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7301459593 This hilt reminds me of one that Battara restored a while ago and which we discussed here: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002259.html [Battara's reconstruction of that silver junggayan kakatua is my avatar today.] I believe the one that just finished on eBay had, at one time, a similar valuable junggayan kakatua that was lost or removed (perhaps for sale), with a silver cap being used to cover the end of the hilt. The ivory and horn or ebony spacers visible below the silver cap were often found on high end junggayan barung (Battara and I did some reseach on this when he was restoring my other barung). So I think the one that just finished on eBay likely started life as a high end, datu quality, junggayan barung, but later the family fell on hard times and sold off the kakatua. The rest of the barung looks to be fairly high quality too, and the sword with its scabbard may well be 19th C. I think I got a good deal on this one. A question for the Moro collectors -- Should the hilt be restored to the former glory it may have had, or be left in its present state?

23rd February 2005, 01:19 AM	#2
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	The ability for ivory jungayan barongs to lose their cockatuas due to an inherent fragility of structual design (the cockatua is fastened to the puhan via a plug due to the size of the ivory needed in much the same way as many kris cockatua are attached) is unfortunately a common occurance. Given chipping and the rigors of a combat environment I could easily envisage this piece losing its cockatua due to wear and tear. I own one who has lost its cockatua, amongst other things (it is missing a 1/3" off the tip, someone ran through it with a belt grinder, and suffers pitting in the extreme). Ive also encountered a number of higher end jungayans that have replacement cockatuas, including my own ivory hilted barong. Anyways, for a piece like this, that has already had some restoration done, I would vote for no further restoration, barring a new pristine ivory cockatua. If only for financial reasons alone. The cost of purchasing the amount of ivory needed to recarve a a new cockatua would be many times the cost of the barong itself, added to that would be the cost of finding an artisan capable of doing such work. If the barong had no restoration done, and was in rough shape like my own, I would vote for restoration of some kind. However, again the cost and artist prohibition against a new ivory cockatua are daunting. I really really really like Battara's ivory cockatua on your barong, and think if any restoration was to be done, that an silver alternative may be the most cost effective and still restore dignity to a piece. The simple silver cap on this piece though is also a nice alternative, if only a stop gap measure. Now of course, if one found a spare cockatua, or happened to have oodles of money laying around for an ivory purchase, that would change the situation. But in the end my argument is on a purely financially practical level. A new ivory cockatua may cost far far more than the fully restored barong itself. Anyways, there are enough unique features on this barong, that at least in my opinion as a novice collector, make it desirable in of in itself, and lend to the overall character of the piece thus negating the need for restoration. Hmmm...oh well Ive rambled. Anyways this is just my opinion. Ive left my own cockatualess barong cockatualess still because I cant decide what to do with it, so at least for me, restoration is a toughy decision. Then again I have a tendency not to completely restore pieces (eg. replace missing parts) just because the restoration always screams at me as being un-natural, no matter how well done. Preserve, fix the original parts as best I can, I can live with. But adding new parts always gnaws at my gut, making me question if I am doing the right thing, or if I am desecrating the piece. Oh wow talk about rambling.

23rd February 2005, 03:32 AM	#3
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,084	To cockatu or not to cockatu................................THAT is the question!

23rd February 2005, 04:00 AM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Thanks Federico. I like your line of reasoning -- maybe enough restoration already to this one. Then again, Battara does do wonderful work. Decisions, decisions, decisions.

23rd February 2005, 04:04 PM	#8
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	....first let me say I bow my head in shame at what my "southern brutha from anotha mutha"(RSword) said above!!....good lawd Rick! As for restoration I agree with the "leave it be" crowd. Were a portion of the cockatou missing, I'd say go for it, but in this case you would be essentially rebuilding the most "artsie" part of the hilt, making it "new". This would only be for some one intending to keep the barong for a very long time, accepting its restored features. Once such a change is made the collectiblity of the barong will go down in the eyes of many....one, because of its new addition, regardless of quality, and secondly because there is no guarantee the restoration is correct to what the original hilt actually had..

23rd February 2005, 11:56 PM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	You people are wonderful for my self-esteem. Obvioiusly I am on the side of restoration. There are many that do accept restoration, provided that the restoration would not damage what is already there nor takes away from the piece. Artzi does a lot of restorations as well as many on this form besides me. When it comes to ivory on this piece, I would have to look into the amount for pre-ban ivory. Silver or even dark wood with ivory pieces would be a little cheaper. This piece does not seem to need too much restoration except for the missing pommel. Of course one other thing to consider is that restorations and replacements happened over the life of many pieces. Here I especially see Charles' point (every pun intended ). IF I were to do an ivory pommel, I would recommend a slimmer and less elaborate ivory pommel than that found on Artzi's website. If wood, maybe dark wood with ivory pieces, if silver, then....oh, yeah, silver.

25th February 2005, 05:25 AM	#10
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Battara: If I have room in my case I will bring it to Timonium and we can discuss. Ian.