Some Philippines kris from my collection

[carlos]

Those are my last adquisitions. A good kris with sheath very curious. One of them has a little ivory pommel and good blade, with wood sheath.
Another has cackatua pommel with a unusual sheath, engraved and with 2 details, a little square mirror and a pice of metal at the end of the sheath,and some part of the blade is engraved too. The 2 blades are cover with a barnish.
The another kris had been restored by a friend ( only the rattan ) and I don´t have the sheath. ( Flavio, my apologies for the delay in post this kris ).
Best regards and I wish you enjoy this pieces-
Carlos

[migueldiaz]

Nice collection, Carlos! Thanks for sharing the photos

[Battara]

Nice pieces. The kris with the weird scabbard - the scabbard is new and not traditionally made.

The rattan on the other kris could use some stainig but nice work.

All the blades could use a little staining to being out the laminiations.

The one kris with the engravings has nice talismans - great engravings.

Also the one with the ivory appears to be a little older than the other 2 looking at the pommel size and the way the waves are in the blade. Perhaps early to mid - 1800s?

[kai]

Hello Carlos,

Thanks for posting your latest acquisitions!

I'm with Jose - the blades scream for a good cleaning, polishing, and etching job to bring out their true beauty. Could you post close-ups of the gangya area taken from directly above, please?

Do all pieces have a seperate gangya - can't see that from the pics?

What's the length of the blades?

Regards,
Kai

[carlos]

The kris with ivory pommel has a blade with 20,5 inc, the kris with complete cockatoa pommel has 21 inc and the kris with rattan restored has 21.5inc (blade).
I have take new picture.
thanks for the information.
carlos

[Dimasalang]

Sweet collection Carlos!
I need to learn how to weave.

[tom hyle]

The one in the middle appears to be iras ganga (no seperate ganga; "not a true kris") Are we sure it's sheath is new/innappropriate? I think it may be penninsular Malay, actually (rather than Mindinao Malay=Moro). Nice silver inlay on it, yes?

[tom hyle]

Nice, true cockatoo handles (not the "fully developed cockatoo" that seems to me to actually represent a plant). Especially the ivory one, which is IMHO actually the full development of the cockatoo handle, or close to it. The raised cheeks are especially a definitive feature.

[Battara]

Tom you may have a point when it comes to the scabbard of the middle one, being possibly Malay.

However I would still say that the piece is Moro, and the missing ganga may be hidden since this is done sometimes and not well lit.

I also disagree with you on the development of the cheeks being a recent development (if I understand you) since full cheeks also go with older pieces on say mid-1800s without the tail flare.

[tom hyle]

I didn't say they are a recent development I said they are an aspect what I consider the full development, ie the most complex true expression of the type. The crest and beak crest are sometimes seen with them; these are not speci.fically neccessarily what I mean by plant features. The "fully develooped cockatoo" that I think is actually a plant/blended of plant features is the type where the cross-section is round, the butt is flatt with a keel, and viewed from the rear (not the top) closely resembles the flared bolster on a sikkin. Which type to me resembles a true cockatoo as seen here little or not at all.

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody,

It appears to me:
- that all three have a separate section at the base of the blade.
- the top blade is the oldest; c. mid-1800's.
- the two top blades follow the 'classic' protocol.
- the cockatoo on the top blade is the practical variant of the classical form.
- the other two cockatoos are what is usually referred to as the 'stylised Mindanaw' form.
- the top two pieces come from northern Kalimantan while the third one is a Mindanaw blade.

Best,

[Battara]

Amuk I am in agreement.

Tom, I see better your arguement and agree in that these forms are made of plant motifs, ie., "okir". Malay, Indonesian, and Moro okir though different from each other, are made of plant elements to create a symbolic whole.

[tom hyle]

I do not see any indication of a seperate ganga on the kris in question. Can you explain your position? I see what looks like a faked line defined chiefly or entirely by the ends of the chevron inlays all being in a line. Iras ganga kris sundang usually have a faked line of some sort.......I don't see this line continuing out across the long rear arm of the ganga, where there are no inlays.

[kai]

I do not see any indication of a seperate ganga on the kris in question.

Tom, I do guess that all 3 kris have a seperate gangya. The pic seems to indicate a possibly true separation line with corrosion restricted to the blade at the base of the chevron to the right. The position of the line finishing at the scrollwork seems a little odd though.


Carlos needs to verify this by closely examining the pieces, preferably with a good magnifying glass: usually in pieces with seperate gangya the metal exhibits forging marks/impurities/corrosion that stop at the separation line while in pieces with no seperate gangya you'll usually find some that extend over any "faked" separation line (can be tough when modern steels were utilized without decent forging - stock removal would indicate a late low-quality piece which this kris obviously isn't is).

Regards,
Kai

[tom hyle]

Moreover the folded grain on the blade is along the blade on a kris, while on the ganga the grain runs across the blade (along the ganga) moreover the colour of the metal is occasionally notably different, though more usually the ganga seems almost to have been made from a (deliberately of course) left over piece of the blade.
You are right; that vague shadowy line does run a bit oddly for a ganga line, though it finishes in a gap/division in the okar, which is interesting. Also, it seems too wide and cloudy for a real or even deliberately faked line, perhaps. I suspect it is some kind of rust shadow.

[tom hyle]

On the other hand I do now see the little line fragment you're pointing out coming off the one one chevron. Hmmmm!!!! But consider it seems to parrallel one of those curved lines (what are they representative of? Scales? Clouds?.......)........

[tom hyle]

Originally Posted by Battara

Amuk I am in agreement.

Tom, I see better your arguement and agree in that these forms are made of plant motifs, ie., "okir". Malay, Indonesian, and Moro okir though different from each other, are made of plant elements to create a symbolic whole.

In Europe is such a tradition too; I've a "Green Man" idol made of leaves, and an iron ram's head made of leaves to use for a pommel some day.............

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

- the top two pieces come from northern Kalimantan while the third one is a Mindanaw blade.

Why are the two top pieces coming from Northern Kalimantan?
I can't see the points what makes them typically Kalimantan.......except for the ratan windings, but I think the moro's did have these windings also...

Kind Regards,
Maurice

[kai]

I also don't see any features hinting at a Bornean origin.

IMHO the 2 upper pieces have typical Sulu blades.

The third seems to be Maranao.

Regards,
Kai

[Flavio]

Thank you Carlos