Heavey Fullered Hijaz Jambiya

archer · 3rd January 2014, 09:25 PM

This interesting Dharia looking Fullered Hijaz Jambiya just came in. The hefty well balanced short sword instills confidence it weighs in at 1.5 pounds, two pounds fourteen ounces in it's sheath. Blade is 19 inches long, 25 OAL in sheath. It shows some tip and edge contacts or abuse. The armor piercing potential may well be a clue to it's age. Appears to be of high quality, having had lots of use.
Your thoughts and further information. Thank you, Steve

kahnjar1 · 5th January 2014, 02:18 AM

Hi Steve, and a Happy New Year.
I was watching this one but due to high price and apparent damage, decided to pass. Nice piece though....
Firstly what you have is definitely a Dharia. These come in many lengths, and if you check the pic, the guy on the left has a very long Dharia compared with his companions. I have also attached a pic of three similar ones which I have. The shortest is 19 3/4" long and the biggest 26 1/2".
Some comment which you may find useful. The hilt of your Dharia appears to be made in sandwich style rather than solid horn. The pins which hold the slabs together are clearly visible.
The blade style is not unusual. A similar blade is shown in Elgood's book Arms and Armour of Arabia on page 79, and I have a Dharia with this type of blade and also a Jambiya with a multi fullered blade. I believe that it is likely that these blades are probably machine made rather than hand forged. There is evidence that steel rolling equipment existed in Arabia quite early in the 20th century. The armour piercing aspect I do not think is valid as the Arab tribes did not, as far as I am aware, use armour to any extent, if at all.
As to age of your piece, I would put it at around mid 20th century, maybe 1950 ish, perhaps a little later.
Hope this helps.
Stu

archer · 5th January 2014, 04:53 AM

Hi Stu Happy New Year as well,
I did some research on this type of blade and recall reading a discussion fullered blades and how they might rank older age wise. Do you think the pommel end is missing the silver covering? Comparing the three in the Daylight disappeared hours ago photos, then all but the wooden handled one are Dharias. The fuller arrangement on the one with two half grooves on either side of the single central fuller. This new one has three raised fullers to my eye that is quite different. The wooden hilted ones blade a bit shorter and is much thinner it weighs in at 3/4 of a pound which is exactly 3/4 lighter , granted the hilts are bound to factor in,but, the blade heft is so different. Even with the blade nicks I felt comfortable with the discounted price we settled on in the end. Thank you for the information. I'm looking forward to more comparisons. Steve

Here's the link on fullered blades :http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ullered+blades

kahnjar1 · 5th January 2014, 05:10 AM

Hi Steve,
It is possible I suppose that the insert silver could be missing from your Dharia, but that would then suggest that the total silver has been removed and replaced. It does not look that way from the pics. In your group pic though, the one second from right appears to be missing the top rosette which would/should be at the top of the two strips joining at the top. This would suggest that the top has possibly been "remodelled" after having met with some sort of accident during it's life. The wooden hilted version I believe is a replacement, and not perhaps the original.
As far as the blades go, you will know that there are several different styles found on Dharia, and for that matter on Jambiya, and the variations I assume come about by different techniques used by the blade makers.
I personally do not necessarily believe that fullered blades predate those with raised central ribs, or those with no ribs at all. The fullered examples I have are I believe later than others in my collection. That is not to say that fullered blades did not appear earlier, but in my opinion would be 20th century in any case.
Stu

archer · 5th January 2014, 10:36 PM

I've been referring to the three raised ribs as fullers. The fullers are the grooves, as in your examples The Three Ribs are unusual See Artzis comment on one of yours. Way to go having acquired two Stu.

http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=4207

I noticed a blade stabilizer likely present on others too. This one was exposed by the thin silver cover having been pushed back. Is the reddish like Jewelers rouge polish to clean off or applied as part of a custom?
Thanks, Steve

kahnjar1 · 5th January 2014, 11:18 PM

Hi Steve,
My reply was related to your original questions so did not include blade stabilisers of which I know nothing. I assume these were to hold the blade steady in the hilt?
Had forgotten where I got that multi fullered/ribbed Dharia, but find Artzi's comments interesting especially since I have two of these blade types and you also do. Certainly the multi fullered/ribbed style appears in Elgood's book but I have not seen it illustrated in any of the other books I have.
So lets agree that they are not common, but I tend to take the term "rare" with a grain of salt. I would however accept the description of "unusual", as most Dharia blades seem to be either single ribbed or flatish with no rib.
Stu

archer · 6th January 2014, 06:00 PM

Hi Stu, We agree that " unusual" is the better term for these blades, I think the visual attraction is all to do with additional ribs without them you are left with half a fuller on the outer edges. Always interesting to find variations to the norm. Finding the reinforcement is just a fluke they are likely on all of these hilts. Your responses and opinions are always welcome and helpful.
As you said, I haven't found any Arabian Armour, so far. In Elgoods' title, "Arms and Armour of Arabia" How does Armour apply, bucklers, captured Armour?

kahnjar1 · 6th January 2014, 08:21 PM

There is a Buckler illustrated in Elgood's book. I have one of these and pic attached here. As far as actual armour is concerned, I suppose it is likely that some "foreign" items may have been acquired, but I have not seen any illustrations of these in actual use.
Stu

A.alnakkas · 6th January 2014, 11:21 PM

Nice dharia. Congrats mate.

Agree with Stu on his analysis but I dont think the blade is machine made, but agree on the time line.

3rd January 2014, 09:25 PM	#1
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Heavy Fullered Hijaz Jambiya This interesting Dharia looking Fullered Hijaz Jambiya just came in. The hefty well balanced short sword instills confidence it weighs in at 1.5 pounds, two pounds fourteen ounces in it's sheath. Blade is 19 inches long, 25 OAL in sheath. It shows some tip and edge contacts or abuse. The armor piercing potential may well be a clue to it's age. Appears to be of high quality, having had lots of use. Your thoughts and further information. Thank you, Steve Attached Images Last edited by archer; 3rd January 2014 at 11:21 PM.

5th January 2014, 02:18 AM	#2
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,741	Hi Steve, and a Happy New Year. I was watching this one but due to high price and apparent damage, decided to pass. Nice piece though.... Firstly what you have is definitely a Dharia. These come in many lengths, and if you check the pic, the guy on the left has a very long Dharia compared with his companions. I have also attached a pic of three similar ones which I have. The shortest is 19 3/4" long and the biggest 26 1/2". Some comment which you may find useful. The hilt of your Dharia appears to be made in sandwich style rather than solid horn. The pins which hold the slabs together are clearly visible. The blade style is not unusual. A similar blade is shown in Elgood's book Arms and Armour of Arabia on page 79, and I have a Dharia with this type of blade and also a Jambiya with a multi fullered blade. I believe that it is likely that these blades are probably machine made rather than hand forged. There is evidence that steel rolling equipment existed in Arabia quite early in the 20th century. The armour piercing aspect I do not think is valid as the Arab tribes did not, as far as I am aware, use armour to any extent, if at all. As to age of your piece, I would put it at around mid 20th century, maybe 1950 ish, perhaps a little later. Hope this helps. Stu Attached Images Last edited by kahnjar1; 5th January 2014 at 04:56 AM. Reason: spelling

5th January 2014, 04:53 AM	#3
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	comparisons Hi Stu Happy New Year as well, I did some research on this type of blade and recall reading a discussion fullered blades and how they might rank older age wise. Do you think the pommel end is missing the silver covering? Comparing the three in the Daylight disappeared hours ago photos, then all but the wooden handled one are Dharias. The fuller arrangement on the one with two half grooves on either side of the single central fuller. This new one has three raised fullers to my eye that is quite different. The wooden hilted ones blade a bit shorter and is much thinner it weighs in at 3/4 of a pound which is exactly 3/4 lighter , granted the hilts are bound to factor in,but, the blade heft is so different. Even with the blade nicks I felt comfortable with the discounted price we settled on in the end. Thank you for the information. I'm looking forward to more comparisons. Steve Here's the link on fullered blades :http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ullered+blades Attached Images Last edited by archer; 5th January 2014 at 05:23 AM.

5th January 2014, 10:36 PM	#5
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Ribs v.s. Fullers I've been referring to the three raised ribs as fullers. The fullers are the grooves, as in your examples The Three Ribs are unusual See Artzis comment on one of yours. Way to go having acquired two Stu. http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=4207 I noticed a blade stabilizer likely present on others too. This one was exposed by the thin silver cover having been pushed back. Is the reddish like Jewelers rouge polish to clean off or applied as part of a custom? Thanks, Steve Attached Images

6th January 2014, 08:21 PM	#8
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,741	There is a Buckler illustrated in Elgood's book. I have one of these and pic attached here. As far as actual armour is concerned, I suppose it is likely that some "foreign" items may have been acquired, but I have not seen any illustrations of these in actual use. Stu Attached Images

5th January 2014, 05:10 AM	#4
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,741	Hi Steve, It is possible I suppose that the insert silver could be missing from your Dharia, but that would then suggest that the total silver has been removed and replaced. It does not look that way from the pics. In your group pic though, the one second from right appears to be missing the top rosette which would/should be at the top of the two strips joining at the top. This would suggest that the top has possibly been "remodelled" after having met with some sort of accident during it's life. The wooden hilted version I believe is a replacement, and not perhaps the original. As far as the blades go, you will know that there are several different styles found on Dharia, and for that matter on Jambiya, and the variations I assume come about by different techniques used by the blade makers. I personally do not necessarily believe that fullered blades predate those with raised central ribs, or those with no ribs at all. The fullered examples I have are I believe later than others in my collection. That is not to say that fullered blades did not appear earlier, but in my opinion would be 20th century in any case. Stu

5th January 2014, 11:18 PM	#6
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,741	Hi Steve, My reply was related to your original questions so did not include blade stabilisers of which I know nothing. I assume these were to hold the blade steady in the hilt? Had forgotten where I got that multi fullered/ribbed Dharia, but find Artzi's comments interesting especially since I have two of these blade types and you also do. Certainly the multi fullered/ribbed style appears in Elgood's book but I have not seen it illustrated in any of the other books I have. So lets agree that they are not common, but I tend to take the term "rare" with a grain of salt. I would however accept the description of "unusual", as most Dharia blades seem to be either single ribbed or flatish with no rib. Stu

6th January 2014, 06:00 PM	#7
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Hi Stu, We agree that " unusual" is the better term for these blades, I think the visual attraction is all to do with additional ribs without them you are left with half a fuller on the outer edges. Always interesting to find variations to the norm. Finding the reinforcement is just a fluke they are likely on all of these hilts. Your responses and opinions are always welcome and helpful. As you said, I haven't found any Arabian Armour, so far. In Elgoods' title, "Arms and Armour of Arabia" How does Armour apply, bucklers, captured Armour?

6th January 2014, 11:21 PM	#9
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Nice dharia. Congrats mate. Agree with Stu on his analysis but I dont think the blade is machine made, but agree on the time line.